It depends on a country. I was at places where IPv4 is the default choice. I also visited countries where IPv6 is a standard practice. As a consumer, you really do not see much difference, IPv6 works surprisingly well if not better than IPv4.
IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
21–30 of 98 posts
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#22My IPv6 philosophy: If any "new" computer technology has been around even half as long as IPv6 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_deployment#Major_mileston... ), with even a tenth of the "you gotta start using this!" push from the Big Boys - and yet still is very widely avoided/resisted, and the older-tech alternative commands a price premium due to widespread demand...gosh, that "new" technology must absolutely su…
A big part of it is how much actually needs to change, and work properly, before you can actually rely on IPv6 the way you can on IPv4. I recall reading about Facebook's internal IPv6 migration for their data centers and the problems they ran into. The two that stuck out the most to me and which I still remember details for are: 1. The PHP function developers used to convert an IPv4 address into an integer to store i…
I am not buying that even at Facebook there's enough developers to keep adding ip address lookup calls in amounts that make a difference.
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's fair to blame the technology. The problem is that the computing industry has changed. The things that IPv6 would enable (direct end-to-end connectivity) is now seen as a negative by the industry that has since pivoted on rent-seeking, walled gardens and restricting user's potential. The industry is now even legally making money on many things that would've been considered outright malware just a de…
> The industry is now even legally making money on many things that would've been considered outright malware just a decade ago. Sounds a bit over the top. Can you name some examples?
10 years ago if you made software that uses all kinds of lies and dark patterns to get access to a user's contacts list, uploads it to your server and then you did data mining on it, people would be concerned and consider the software malicious.
Likewise with analytics - tracking every single action you do in an app (along with generic metadata such as IP addresses - which often leaks your general location and your relationship with anyone on the same network since you'd be sharing the IP address with them) would have been considered spyware.
When there were talks of tracking people for ad targeting in the early days of the internet people (rightfully) freaked out, even though that tracking was really primitive by today's standards.
All of those things are now considered legitimate and are routinely done.
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The industry is now even legally making money on many things that would've been considered outright malware just a decade ago. Sounds a bit over the top. Can you name some examples?
10 years ago if you made software that uses all kinds of lies and dark patterns to get access to a user's contacts list, uploads it to your server and then you did data mining on it, people would be concerned and consider the software malicious. Likewise with analytics - tracking every single action you do in an app (along with generic metadata such as IP addresses - which often leaks your general location and your r…
Indeed. When I look at how far things have fallen in this regard, it gets very hard to feel positive or optimistic about the internet.
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The problem is that the computing industry has changed. Nah, the problem is ipv6 has been designed by a commitee for a lot of enterprise-ish features so the hobbyists have taken a look and postponed setting it up internally for when they have absolutely no choice. I've asked for simple ipv6 tutorials in discussions on HN and elsewhere and whatever I got pointed at was always longer than the article we're discussing…
- https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/ipv6/configurati... - https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/routing/examples... - https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/ipv6_ipv4_transi... - https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/ipv6/ipv6_extras
Yeah right. The summary of the first page already throws around like 4-5 acronyms that each require reading a separate documentation.
And that's only for configuring your router, not your local network...
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#26My IPv6 philosophy: If any "new" computer technology has been around even half as long as IPv6 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_deployment#Major_mileston... ), with even a tenth of the "you gotta start using this!" push from the Big Boys - and yet still is very widely avoided/resisted, and the older-tech alternative commands a price premium due to widespread demand...gosh, that "new" technology must absolutely su…
A big part of it is how much actually needs to change, and work properly, before you can actually rely on IPv6 the way you can on IPv4. I recall reading about Facebook's internal IPv6 migration for their data centers and the problems they ran into. The two that stuck out the most to me and which I still remember details for are: 1. The PHP function developers used to convert an IPv4 address into an integer to store i…
Well...okay, some good points, +1.
OTOH - for people making real-world decisions, the difference between "$Networking_Technology sucks" and "~all available implementations of $Networking_Technology suck" is pretty meaningless.
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#27For an IPv6 advocate, this guy sure set up a lot of NAT. And while he claimed he's going IPv6-only, he set up public access via IPv4. That won't convince anyone to switch or upgrade. I understand that he's building a usable service and just trying to git 'er done, but it's a lot of hacks, so I'm glad they're documented in this here blogpost. I hope that he can continually probe the edges to find out when real IPv6 su…
The nice thing about NAT64 is you only NAT when you're talking to a v4 only client, otherwise you still have pure v6. This leaves no hacks to remove for a pure IPv6 experience it just means you can have single stacked IPv6 devices instead of needing to dual stack or wait for the entire rest of the world to also configure IPv6 too. I.e. it allows you to push IPv4 to your internet edge only in a way that doesn't downgr…
When the day comes that I have to shift to IPv6, I think I still want to NAT, though. I could be (and probably am) misunderstanding things, but I don't see how I can eliminate my need for it.
What I want it for is so that I can have services exposed through my domain name, but operated on different internal servers.
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The industry is now even legally making money on many things that would've been considered outright malware just a decade ago. Sounds a bit over the top. Can you name some examples?
10 years ago if you made software that uses all kinds of lies and dark patterns to get access to a user's contacts list, uploads it to your server and then you did data mining on it, people would be concerned and consider the software malicious. Likewise with analytics - tracking every single action you do in an app (along with generic metadata such as IP addresses - which often leaks your general location and your r…
We also used to have a name for malware that injected ads into your computer: adware. Now ads are just part of Windows.
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#29I have Verizon FIOS and my area STILL does not have ipv6.
Re: IPv6 Is A Disaster (but we can fix it)
#30My IPv6 philosophy: If any "new" computer technology has been around even half as long as IPv6 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv6_deployment#Major_mileston... ), with even a tenth of the "you gotta start using this!" push from the Big Boys - and yet still is very widely avoided/resisted, and the older-tech alternative commands a price premium due to widespread demand...gosh, that "new" technology must absolutely su…
One way to think about the timescale is the rollout time versus the expected usage amount of time. IPv6 was also a bit of a "science fiction project". I remember a lot of the early hype for IPv6 was that it was "IP for the whole solar system" or even sometimes "galactic IP". The architects of IPv6 were clear that they were hoping for something like a 1000 years or more of addresses and usage, even expecting nearly every device on the planet (and maybe the whole solar system) needing an IPv6 address and knowing how fast things like the "Internet of Things" were coming down the horizon.
If it is built to last a 1000 years or more, ~25% of internet traffic by the end of the first 30 years isn't a terrible rollout curve. That's 0.3% of its expected lifetime. (Assuming the 1000 years clock started 30 years ago. It's even believable the 1000 years clock starts closer to 90% rollout of IPv6 than to IPv6 announcements 30 years ago. IPv4 address scarcity wasn't truly felt until decades into IPv4 usage, though it was an academic concern.)
Many Internet projects have always run on different timescales compared to the vastly faster timescales people associate with software and even hardware generations. (In part because these rollouts happen across software and hardware generations.) The IP protocol is so deeply fundamental to that, it is somewhat "civilization defining". It would probably be a lot scarier if an upgrade to something fundamental like IP was an "overnight success". Civilizations are built on the timescales of decades and lifetimes. It should not be a surprise that IPv6 rollout has happened on such timescales. We mostly can only hope that the IPv6 architects were as smart as they hoped they were in preparing for the deep, unknown future of the internet, because they knew they were working on a civilation-timescale tool. (Which is exactly why IPv6 is not just "IPv4 with bigger addresses".)