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Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

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Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought most modern devices had isolation!

Indeed, surprising. From IEEE 802.3 (revision 2012), section "32.6 PMA electrical specifications": > The PHY shall provide electrical isolation between the DTE or repeater circuits, including frame ground and all MDI leads. > This electrical separation shall withstand at least one of the following electrical strength tests: > [...] > b) 2250 Vdc for 60 s, [...] Non-compliant Ethernet PHY?

Passive PoE is always on

Active PoE is negotiated with handshake

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#22

Having inadvertently plugged a 24v passive PoE live connection into an old 2012 Mac Mini and immediately frying it, this is welcome news!

I thought most modern devices had isolation!

Note that there are real 48v 802.3af/at power over ethernet devices where the power source has to assert that the power drain wants the power before it powers up and fake "passive" 24v systems where the line is always energized. probably where the GP got the injector from.

My personal involvement on this was several years ago when I was going to buy several unifi access points. It turns out you have to be careful because many of the models advertise as being POE but in reality are jank 24v passive systems. I have not kept up with the current unifi lineup but at the time you had to make sure to get the "AC Pro" to have real 802.3af compatibility.

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#23
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought most modern devices had isolation!

Note that there are real 48v 802.3af/at power over ethernet devices where the power source has to assert that the power drain wants the power before it powers up and fake "passive" 24v systems where the line is always energized. probably where the GP got the injector from. My personal involvement on this was several years ago when I was going to buy several unifi access points. It turns out you have to be careful bec…

I have a load of Unifi stuff here and it all supports active PoE, but works just fine with passive. The PoE outputs all autonegotiate.

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#24
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, surprising. From IEEE 802.3 (revision 2012), section "32.6 PMA electrical specifications": > The PHY shall provide electrical isolation between the DTE or repeater circuits, including frame ground and all MDI leads. > This electrical separation shall withstand at least one of the following electrical strength tests: > [...] > b) 2250 Vdc for 60 s, [...] Non-compliant Ethernet PHY?

Passive PoE is always on Active PoE is negotiated with handshake

Yes, but passive PoE is almost universally at 24v, and per the Ethernet spec (as quoted above) an Ethernet PHY should tolerate 24v fine. This is important as transients from nearby lightning or occasionally even coupling to power cables can produce this kind of voltage. Ethernet connectors are magnetically coupled for protection from these transients.

The problem with PPoE in these cases is, I think, not the voltage so much as the current. The continuous 24v supply may overheat the magnetic coupling transformer and cause it to fail. Some Ethernet interfaces, usually on telecom equipment and quality switches, have over current protection to prevent this. Unfortunately consumer devices usually don't.

It's important to understand this because 802.3af etc. does provide power without being asked - as a rest for a characteristic resistance on the receiver. Otherwise it wouldn't know if a PoE-capable device was connected. Up to 20v can be applied during this process but it is time limited. In general, 802.3 PoE supplies must monitor the current usage of the powered device and cut off power if it is too high or even too low for more than a short period of time. This is in part to prevent this overheating problem on devices that might, for some coincidental reason, fall into the appropriate resistance range to activate PoE.

In other words, 24v or even hundreds of volts for a few seconds is perfectly safe. 24v for minutes is likely to cause damage to devices without better protection than the spec requires. Old Ethernet equipment used to make the non-isolated components relatively easy to replace so that repairs after a problem like this were easier but now the isolation is a tiny surface mount part and replacing it will require tools and skill.

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#25
post #19

" the M1 Mac mini was the perfect hardware to test out PoE, as on idle, the device only consumes 6W. When some load is applied to the internals, that power draw can go up to 40W. After some thorough research, we found out that the maximum throughput of Power over Ethernet was 15.4W " They'll have to bump it up to 802.3bt (Poe ++) which can support 60W. Cool Project though, I've been wanting to mod my Mac Mini m1 to r…

What's the goal of having a MacMini running off an external battery? I mean, it seems less cost effective than just getting a MB Air and not using the screen...

> it seems less cost effective than just getting a MB Air and not using the screen...

how ? why would paying for a screen and not use it be cheaper ?

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#26
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the goal of having a MacMini running off an external battery? I mean, it seems less cost effective than just getting a MB Air and not using the screen...

> it seems less cost effective than just getting a MB Air and not using the screen... how ? why would paying for a screen and not use it be cheaper ?

Economy of scale, mostly.

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#27
post #19

" the M1 Mac mini was the perfect hardware to test out PoE, as on idle, the device only consumes 6W. When some load is applied to the internals, that power draw can go up to 40W. After some thorough research, we found out that the maximum throughput of Power over Ethernet was 15.4W " They'll have to bump it up to 802.3bt (Poe ++) which can support 60W. Cool Project though, I've been wanting to mod my Mac Mini m1 to r…

What's the goal of having a MacMini running off an external battery? I mean, it seems less cost effective than just getting a MB Air and not using the screen...

Avoiding the inevitable spicy pillow seems like a good reason

An external/easily replaceable battery would be excellent come time to deal with cell age

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#28

" the M1 Mac mini was the perfect hardware to test out PoE, as on idle, the device only consumes 6W. When some load is applied to the internals, that power draw can go up to 40W. After some thorough research, we found out that the maximum throughput of Power over Ethernet was 15.4W " They'll have to bump it up to 802.3bt (Poe ++) which can support 60W. Cool Project though, I've been wanting to mod my Mac Mini m1 to r…

i would actually like being able to power my mac mini with just a usb-c dock like a macbook

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#29

" the M1 Mac mini was the perfect hardware to test out PoE, as on idle, the device only consumes 6W. When some load is applied to the internals, that power draw can go up to 40W. After some thorough research, we found out that the maximum throughput of Power over Ethernet was 15.4W " They'll have to bump it up to 802.3bt (Poe ++) which can support 60W. Cool Project though, I've been wanting to mod my Mac Mini m1 to r…

Minor correction: 802.3bt added 51W (Type 3) or 71W (Type 4). 60W isn't a standard power level. Some switches support up to 95W per port with PoH.

Re: Hacker mods an M1 Mac mini to receive power over Ethernet instead of AC

#30
post #19

" the M1 Mac mini was the perfect hardware to test out PoE, as on idle, the device only consumes 6W. When some load is applied to the internals, that power draw can go up to 40W. After some thorough research, we found out that the maximum throughput of Power over Ethernet was 15.4W " They'll have to bump it up to 802.3bt (Poe ++) which can support 60W. Cool Project though, I've been wanting to mod my Mac Mini m1 to r…

What's the goal of having a MacMini running off an external battery? I mean, it seems less cost effective than just getting a MB Air and not using the screen...

cheaper and bigger batteries? always replaceable in the future? And tbh laptop batteries are not meant to be used 24/7, personally would avoid it.
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