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Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

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Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#21

Post by OhMeadhbh »

usbakimbo wrote: post #2

Unbelievably corrupt

I think they're believably corrupt. In the old days we were okay with about 10% corruption in the states. But that was the old-school "bribe me to get something done" type of corruption. We've moved past that now and have more of a "we're only going to tell people we like what the true requirements are so only they will be successful in their bids" type of corruption. The problem with this style is it's hard to measure the financial impact. Maybe that's why we do it that way.

(clearly talking about the states here... my exposure to illicit payments to government officials in the UK is limited.)

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#22

Post by hh3k0 »

sky_rw wrote: post #18
toyg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the structural problem with the likes of Sunak being in government: maybe it's all legitimate business, but because of his role it looks bad, and there is no real way to prove it one way or the other. An honourable person would recuse himself from situations where even the suggestion of impropriety is possible. Sunak should not have been PM to start with.

Yes, honourable politicians get their kickbacks through book deals, inflated speaking fees, and brilliantly timed stock deals. Having a business owner with a transparent revenue source is far less preferable to an honourable politician who's family gets legitimately deserved board seats on foreign energy corporations.

> Yes, honourable politicians get their kickbacks through book deals, inflated speaking fees, and brilliantly timed stock deals.

False dilemma.

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#23

Post by olddustytrail »

mattzito wrote: post #4

This feels like a nothingburger: - Infosys already had a $100m/year contract with BP - the new contract is 1.5b over 10 years, so a significant increase, but as part of the contract infosys becomes the primary IT partner for BP, therefore not an unimaginable increase - Infosys's customers include Shell, Aramco, Chevron, and others. They're one of the top IT services company for the energy industry, so this isn't an o…

Every one of your points is irrelevant because Infosys's revenue and partners have no bearing whatsoever on how much Sunak's family, or the person who signed the deal, benefited from the agreement.

You might as well argue steal whatever I like because it's a tiny percentage of GDP.

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#24

Post by tomp »

samwillis wrote: post #6

As much as I don't trust the current and recent crop of senior UK government politicians, this is a editorialised title. The company, Infosys is his father in laws (his wife does have shares), and as far as I can see there is no link between this IT contract and North Sea oil rights. But maybe I'm wrong and it a simple bribe, but I doubt it. Fundamentally though, a billionaire should not be a political leader, too mu…

> Fundamentally though, a billionaire should not be a political leader, too much opportunity of corruption or the appearance of it.

Quite the contrary, the richer a person is, the harder they are to corrupt (both in theory - need more money to sway them - as in practice - much cheaper to corrupt someone else), and the less they care about being corrupted (they can afford to follow their principles, e.g. Musk buying Twitter even though it doesn’t make financial sense, or Gates giving his wealth away).

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#25

Post by lotsofpulp »

slantedview wrote: post #14
mattzito wrote: post #4

This feels like a nothingburger: - Infosys already had a $100m/year contract with BP - the new contract is 1.5b over 10 years, so a significant increase, but as part of the contract infosys becomes the primary IT partner for BP, therefore not an unimaginable increase - Infosys's customers include Shell, Aramco, Chevron, and others. They're one of the top IT services company for the energy industry, so this isn't an o…

This is still problematic though because revenue from these new licenses will effectively flow to the PM through this _new_, significantly larger, contract. This is why divestment is important for politicians.

How is he going to divest? Divorce his wife?

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#26

Post by dsr_ »

sky_rw wrote: post #18
toyg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the structural problem with the likes of Sunak being in government: maybe it's all legitimate business, but because of his role it looks bad, and there is no real way to prove it one way or the other. An honourable person would recuse himself from situations where even the suggestion of impropriety is possible. Sunak should not have been PM to start with.

Yes, honourable politicians get their kickbacks through book deals, inflated speaking fees, and brilliantly timed stock deals. Having a business owner with a transparent revenue source is far less preferable to an honourable politician who's family gets legitimately deserved board seats on foreign energy corporations.

Those are not the exclusive range of options, so presenting it that way is a bad argument.

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#27

Post by zh3 »

I've seen (in one case personally) plenty of cases of councils being taking for a ride (quite possibly by private jet), e.g. case below on the BBC recently. Thurrock Council "invested" £655m in solar farms which then went on luxury goods ("including a yacht and a private jet"). The council ended up bankrupt (to be bailed out by the taxpayer).

At government level, it tends to be less obvious. I often wonder about how the honest people in government carry on, being close to the action (maybe like working for an aid agency and having to accept that X percentage of the aid is going to be diverted along the way).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991

Edit: in the same vein, I see "War is a racket" has been submitted today.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36960480

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#28

Post by whimsicalism »

mrd3v0 wrote: post #7
gumballindie wrote: post #3

They also reinstated IR35 regulation that favours his wife’s Infosys outsourcing firm. The UK is such a dysfunctional country that I wouldnt be surprised if the government would simply decriminalise corruption and influence peddling in particular. The latter is illegal but barely enforced. I predict that if the situation continues the country will simply implode. The left will no doubt blame Brexit, but the left is e…

Two-party "democracy" gave the UK a decade of ill-represented government. The switch from FPTP to a proportional ranked voting system needs to happen for its democracy to be sustain itself in the future.

Even more impactful imo would be having a primaries system rather than centralized decisions about who gets to run under what label. Nothing like this is possible in the US: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65102128

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#29

Post by tomp »

mrd3v0 wrote: post #7
gumballindie wrote: post #3

They also reinstated IR35 regulation that favours his wife’s Infosys outsourcing firm. The UK is such a dysfunctional country that I wouldnt be surprised if the government would simply decriminalise corruption and influence peddling in particular. The latter is illegal but barely enforced. I predict that if the situation continues the country will simply implode. The left will no doubt blame Brexit, but the left is e…

Two-party "democracy" gave the UK a decade of ill-represented government. The switch from FPTP to a proportional ranked voting system needs to happen for its democracy to be sustain itself in the future.

The issue with the UK is that the opposition is even worse.

Proportional voting doesn’t change that.

Re: Sunak’s family firm signed deal with BP before opening new North Sea licences

#30

Post by decodebytes »

tomp wrote: post #24
samwillis wrote: post #6

As much as I don't trust the current and recent crop of senior UK government politicians, this is a editorialised title. The company, Infosys is his father in laws (his wife does have shares), and as far as I can see there is no link between this IT contract and North Sea oil rights. But maybe I'm wrong and it a simple bribe, but I doubt it. Fundamentally though, a billionaire should not be a political leader, too mu…

> Fundamentally though, a billionaire should not be a political leader, too much opportunity of corruption or the appearance of it. Quite the contrary, the richer a person is, the harder they are to corrupt (both in theory - need more money to sway them - as in practice - much cheaper to corrupt someone else), and the less they care about being corrupted (they can afford to follow their principles, e.g. Musk buying T…

> the richer a person is, the harder they are to corrupt

That is quite a lot view of non-rich citizens. A lot have morals as baseline for corruption, beyond the cash / assets we hold.

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