Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight • Hacker News Board

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#21

Post by netsharc » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 1:53 PM UTC

willcipriano wrote: post #18

zkirby wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It rarely is - only 1/4th of homeless adults in LA suffer from a severe mental illness [1]. The sad reality is that the difference between the folks you pass by on the street and you is often just a little bit of bad luck and no support system. Go listen to interviews with the folks that live in the sewers in Vegas, most of them want to work but can't get a government ID because they've had their old Ids and birth ce…

Listen to people in prison, all of them innocent. Listen to men who beat their wives, all of them had it coming. People say what they think you want to hear. Don't take it at face value. Specifically for this case: Whenever someone tells you how many jobs they work vs how many hours it's because it isn't that many hours.

To reply to your last line: if you believe that "just work hard and you'll be successful", then you have to believe that the opposite is true, "if you are not successful, that must be because you're lazy".

Someone else said, "if hard work correlates to success, there'd be many millionaire African women.". But many successful people discount that they've had luck, e.g. the luck of being born in a rich country/to rich parents.

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#22

Post by radicalace » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 3:06 PM UTC

in the old days labour was valuable and people were allowed to live in reasonable places. everyone would pile into a village and everyone did something to help out. a loner guy would be sitting around sharpening spears or digging a ditch and at night he would sleep in a barn. nowadays that guy, not being able to get a corporate job and not being able to afford a corporate apartment, simply has nowhere else to go but the sidewalk. we dont utilize people's labor if they dont meet this corporate quantum. theres no in-between. or its so small it barely exists. in the 50s it was huge and people could live in a tiny little shitty apartment. back then even the unfortunate had some stake in society. society is sick. the mind virus of college degrees has taken over. i was watching 48 hours and they actually used the fact that someone didnt have a college degree as a point of concern regarding his character.

the plain and simple fact is that as automation and outsourcing continue, jobs will move toward being completely managerial in nature, and only a small group of people at the top will have jobs. the space between now and UBI will be tons of homeless and disenfranchised.

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#23

Post by foxyv » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 3:22 PM UTC

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #5

Aside from drugs and mental issues, it seems like letting people live in the streets invites others to the lifestyle. Locally we had a man build a home on the sidewalk and brag about what a great job he had done. He thought that the public sidewalk was a place where he could build as he pleased. Some people believe that it's ok to do whatever they want in the common areas of out cities. There's also the constant prob…

> Los Angeles is spending millions to house people in hotels. Spending that much tax money can't continue forever

Los Angeles has a budget of $43 Billion. Their current budget for homelessness is $1.3 billion. Typically the cost to have people on the streets is significantly higher than simply housing them due to Law Enforcement and Emergency medical costs alone. Los Angeles can certainly afford to house them for as long as necessary. In fact it can't afford NOT to.

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#24

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 3:32 PM UTC

zkirby wrote: post #3

NetworkPerson wrote: post #2

Our economy has taken a hit and made things worse for sure. I’d be in rough shape if I didn’t have my pre inflation house mortgage. But it seems like a decent subset of people simply don’t want help if it means needing to take any responsibility themselves. Mental illness plays a role in some, others I’m not sure. It’s almost a shift of thinking leading towards entitlement. Offered someone a bottle of water around he…

It rarely is - only 1/4th of homeless adults in LA suffer from a severe mental illness [1]. The sad reality is that the difference between the folks you pass by on the street and you is often just a little bit of bad luck and no support system. Go listen to interviews with the folks that live in the sewers in Vegas, most of them want to work but can't get a government ID because they've had their old Ids and birth ce…

[deleted]

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#25

Post by GauntletWizard » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 6:01 PM UTC

foxyv wrote: post #23

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #5

Aside from drugs and mental issues, it seems like letting people live in the streets invites others to the lifestyle. Locally we had a man build a home on the sidewalk and brag about what a great job he had done. He thought that the public sidewalk was a place where he could build as he pleased. Some people believe that it's ok to do whatever they want in the common areas of out cities. There's also the constant prob…

> Los Angeles is spending millions to house people in hotels. Spending that much tax money can't continue forever Los Angeles has a budget of $43 Billion. Their current budget for homelessness is $1.3 billion. Typically the cost to have people on the streets is significantly higher than simply housing them due to Law Enforcement and Emergency medical costs alone. Los Angeles can certainly afford to house them for as…

This is an insane assertion. Housing the drug-vagrants does not remove the costs of law enforcement and emergency medical for them. It does not even significantly reduce them; In fact, if often increases them because if you have a crack-house rather than a crack-tent, it's harder/more time for law enforcement and medical to deal with; More spread out, actual doors to transit through, and all of the problems with serving warrants to homes.

That said, I'm still all for housing them in permanent buildings. With steel bars.

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#26

Post by thewildginger » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 8:58 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #25

foxyv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Los Angeles is spending millions to house people in hotels. Spending that much tax money can't continue forever Los Angeles has a budget of $43 Billion. Their current budget for homelessness is $1.3 billion. Typically the cost to have people on the streets is significantly higher than simply housing them due to Law Enforcement and Emergency medical costs alone. Los Angeles can certainly afford to house them for as…

This is an insane assertion. Housing the drug-vagrants does not remove the costs of law enforcement and emergency medical for them. It does not even significantly reduce them; In fact, if often increases them because if you have a crack-house rather than a crack-tent, it's harder/more time for law enforcement and medical to deal with; More spread out, actual doors to transit through, and all of the problems with serv…

Here's some evidence to directly contradict what you're saying.

https://www.usich.gov/resources/uploads/asset_library/Ending...

Evidence points to what the original poster said. It may seem counter intuitive but well, solutions often are.

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#27

Post by WheelsAtLarge » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 9:30 PM UTC

ttonkytonk wrote: post #17

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #5

Aside from drugs and mental issues, it seems like letting people live in the streets invites others to the lifestyle. Locally we had a man build a home on the sidewalk and brag about what a great job he had done. He thought that the public sidewalk was a place where he could build as he pleased. Some people believe that it's ok to do whatever they want in the common areas of out cities. There's also the constant prob…

You sure do seem anxious to make "hard decisions" for people used to them. How about some "hard decisions" for people who aren't, e.g. people who can, all by themselves, afford thousands of private homes forever?

Anxious? Time has passes for patience. We needs to get something done. This has been a decades old issue that's only getting worse. We need to try different solutions.

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#28

Post by foxyv » Wed, Jul 19, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

GauntletWizard wrote: post #25

foxyv wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Los Angeles is spending millions to house people in hotels. Spending that much tax money can't continue forever Los Angeles has a budget of $43 Billion. Their current budget for homelessness is $1.3 billion. Typically the cost to have people on the streets is significantly higher than simply housing them due to Law Enforcement and Emergency medical costs alone. Los Angeles can certainly afford to house them for as…

This is an insane assertion. Housing the drug-vagrants does not remove the costs of law enforcement and emergency medical for them. It does not even significantly reduce them; In fact, if often increases them because if you have a crack-house rather than a crack-tent, it's harder/more time for law enforcement and medical to deal with; More spread out, actual doors to transit through, and all of the problems with serv…

The cost to house an inmate in California is $106k/yr.

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#29

Post by JoeyBananas » Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 1:04 AM UTC

ttonkytonk wrote: post #17

WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #5

Aside from drugs and mental issues, it seems like letting people live in the streets invites others to the lifestyle. Locally we had a man build a home on the sidewalk and brag about what a great job he had done. He thought that the public sidewalk was a place where he could build as he pleased. Some people believe that it's ok to do whatever they want in the common areas of out cities. There's also the constant prob…

You sure do seem anxious to make "hard decisions" for people used to them. How about some "hard decisions" for people who aren't, e.g. people who can, all by themselves, afford thousands of private homes forever?

What are you even implying? That nobody deserves to own a home? Or people with homes are the real problem?

I don't see any reasonable way to interpret this comment

Re: Why can't we stop homelessness? why there's no end in sight

#30

Post by n6h6 » Thu, Jul 20, 2023, 3:03 AM UTC

jowdones wrote: post #13

What I find strange is how someone doesn't have a mother, father, brother, grandparents, aunts, cousins to help a little when in need. I mean they must have been born somewhere, doesn't anyone in the family tree own a place to live?

someone who became homeless because they don't make enough money is likely to come from a family that doesn't make much money.

someone who becomes homeless due to addiction is not likely to be supported by their family because people, in general, hate addicts. even well-off families often can't or won't afford to pay for the help the addict needs, or the addict needs more help than can be afforded, and eventually the family is likely to get sick of it and the addict is again homeless.

you might believe that these aren't the case, and I can't convince you, but the traditional family support network barely exists now and usually doesn't accomplish much when it does exist.