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Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

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Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#21

Post by Garvi »

picadores wrote: post #7
Garvi wrote: post #3

The doubling of energy prices pretty much wiped out the heavy industry sector around here. I remember the German heavy industry Rhein area unions protesting this in Berlin without much media coverage a few months ago.

Let them eat environmental fanatics

The protesters were quite clear it wasn't about any misguided environmental policies, but political ones. We used to get a lot of cheap energy from Russia. Now that pipelines are getting blown up mysteriously, it's a different world.

And before someone accuses me of not badmouthing "the enemy" enough, know that even Ukraine is still importing billions worth of Russian gas and petrol products and thus financing the war against itself. Funny how that works.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#22

Post by astrange »

undefinedland wrote: post #12
veave wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with you that America is using Europe in this way, let's not pretend this isn't a self-inflicted wound. For America it doesn't matter if it's a dem or rep president - they do whatever they have to do to stay afloat, to grow, even if it's at the expense of the rest of the world. Here in Europe our unelected and unaccountable politicians take progressivism as a religion knowing that it harms our economy a…

No I don't; European leaders have either been negligent, corrupt or coerced and I don't blame Americans for sinking their teeth into Europe. But my parents come from Poland and I live in Australia (which has also been effectively been made into a vassal state) and I despair at being put under American rule. I thought Europe had sufficient strength given its population, economy and history to push back and at least re…

Nobody in America knows or thinks anything about Australia.

(The reverse is half true - Australians seem to think a lot about the US, but they don't know much about it, leading to their strange conviction they're the only country in the world with good coffee.)

They're pretty rich so they should be happy with themselves, but they have the same problems any low population resource economy country has.

Failing to diversify their economy is self inflicted though; they have some remarkably good CS research in universities there, but no businesses to speak of coming from it, and for some reason can't be bothered to build working internet.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#23

Post by Garvi »

astrange wrote: post #18
Garvi wrote: post #3

The doubling of energy prices pretty much wiped out the heavy industry sector around here. I remember the German heavy industry Rhein area unions protesting this in Berlin without much media coverage a few months ago.

That's because Germany exports its image of being rational and methodical so hard they accidentally believed in it and forgot they're all naturalistic-mystic Green Party hippies and shut their nuclear plants down.

I agree in principle. But the shutdown of nuclear reactors and subsequent switch to lignite coal burning power plants didn't affect the economy as much as it did the environment. Coal power is not more expensive, it's dirtier.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#24

Post by boffinAudio »

astrange wrote: post #18
Garvi wrote: post #3

The doubling of energy prices pretty much wiped out the heavy industry sector around here. I remember the German heavy industry Rhein area unions protesting this in Berlin without much media coverage a few months ago.

That's because Germany exports its image of being rational and methodical so hard they accidentally believed in it and forgot they're all naturalistic-mystic Green Party hippies and shut their nuclear plants down.

[flagged]

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#25

Post by motbus3 »

seren wrote: post #13
code-blooded wrote: post #9

I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Just think about healthier food, walkable cities, great public transportation, safety, free education and healthcare. The way I see it, life in Europe is less stressful and more enjoyable than in the US. Having less money translates into having a smaller house or a car, but in my opinion that doesn't…

As a European, I can still believe this is true (maybe this is some kind of coping mechanism), but at the same time, I got the impression, that overall healthcare, education, safety nets are getting worse as time goes by, so I don't know how long it will stay an advantage. At some point, you need to have the mean to finance these services, so stagnating GDP is not that good.

As a non European, I can see some patterns that happen to my country 10-20y ago. There is a systematic de-funding of education and health care to prioritise the same private sectors. It is hard to explain in few words, but at least in my country we realised it too late.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#27

Post by murderfs »

seren wrote: post #13
code-blooded wrote: post #9

I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and I think articles like this don't capture quality of life in Europe well. Just think about healthier food, walkable cities, great public transportation, safety, free education and healthcare. The way I see it, life in Europe is less stressful and more enjoyable than in the US. Having less money translates into having a smaller house or a car, but in my opinion that doesn't…

As a European, I can still believe this is true (maybe this is some kind of coping mechanism), but at the same time, I got the impression, that overall healthcare, education, safety nets are getting worse as time goes by, so I don't know how long it will stay an advantage. At some point, you need to have the mean to finance these services, so stagnating GDP is not that good.

Europe, with the exception of the countries directly bordering Russia and Greece (buying weapons to point at fellow NATO member Turkey), has spent decades underinvesting in national defense, arguably freeloading under American hegemony. Now that that's coming to an end, expect things to get worse.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#28

Post by _g7d8 »

remarkEon wrote: post #17
seren wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a European, I can still believe this is true (maybe this is some kind of coping mechanism), but at the same time, I got the impression, that overall healthcare, education, safety nets are getting worse as time goes by, so I don't know how long it will stay an advantage. At some point, you need to have the mean to finance these services, so stagnating GDP is not that good.

I've spent about a month in Europe for the last three years on vacation and travel there for work semi-frequently. I've considered moving (wife says no, for now). I agree with you on the finance part. I'd need to accrue some significant coin to make this move make sense financially (plus finish becoming fluent). What I'd tell you is this "cope" isn't really cope. Americans just don't have many options for cities that…

You don’t need to become fluent in a European language before moving there. Most expats don’t. Having some familiarity will help, it’ll become much easier to learn the language when you’re actually in the environment, and no one will expect you to suddenly speak their language when you get there.
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