Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How blind photographers visualize the world

photoroo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 49 posts

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#21

Post by neom »

vidarh wrote: post #12
haswell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully a…

Same here. Also thought it was a figure of speech. Though I often think of myself as visualizing things, it's more of a spatial awareness and recollection of attributes, never actually visual.

I’m soooo curious what that’s like!! Can you recall memories as pictures or movies? My memory is totally visual so I’m really curious how recall works for people who can’t visualize things? How do you remember stuff??

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#22

Post by tapper »

tapper wrote: post #18
lacrimacida wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you describe into words how your mind works, how imagery is rendered in your mind’s eye and how you perceive the world around you? Also, do you have a mind’s eye like non aphantasiacs do? I suspect not all blind people perceive the world in the same way just like the non blind.

OK here goes. Pleas don't mind the spelling. I was born with glaucoma and had both my eyes removed when I was 2.5 years old. I cant remember being able to see, but I can remember wearing verry thick glasses. They made my nose ake. I cant remember what things look like or cullers. If someone asked me to think about something like a beach I would think about how it would feel under my hands - feet to be on the sand, th…

O yeah just to add. When people talk about cullers I will think about things that are linked to the culler. Like a banana for yello. this because this is all the word yellow means to me. So when some one says the word yellow I will think about what a banana feels like and the same with orange.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#23

Post by mysterydip »

lacrimacida wrote: post #11
haswell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully a…

As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel w…

One of the things that kept me from pursuing art as a hobby was my skill of drawing couldn't match the detail and fidelity of the image in my head I wanted to draw, frustrating and discouraging me. With aphantasia, how was your experience starting out?

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#24

Post by causi »

neom wrote: post #21
vidarh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. Also thought it was a figure of speech. Though I often think of myself as visualizing things, it's more of a spatial awareness and recollection of attributes, never actually visual.

I’m soooo curious what that’s like!! Can you recall memories as pictures or movies? My memory is totally visual so I’m really curious how recall works for people who can’t visualize things? How do you remember stuff??

Also wondering if aphantasiacs have trouble with imagining voices, sounds, music. Do they ever get songs stuck in their head?

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#25

Post by charlieyu1 »

boondoggle16 wrote: post #16

Deciding to repost this as a top-level comment because it has more info about the show and 4 images: https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2023/06/30/check-out-blind-phot...

I like the photos. Feels very different from other photographers. Not photoshopped and no fancy things, but the emotion is still there.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#26

Post by lacrimacida »

mysterydip wrote: post #23
lacrimacida wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel w…

One of the things that kept me from pursuing art as a hobby was my skill of drawing couldn't match the detail and fidelity of the image in my head I wanted to draw, frustrating and discouraging me. With aphantasia, how was your experience starting out?

I started painting accidentally more or less. I have to say my experience was empowering and boundless on an imaginary scale. I enter flow state so easily at this point but the first time I stumbled onto it I painted for 12 hours straight and I didn’t feel tired nor did I feel excited about what I produced, I was just calm and pleased with the experience - it felt like a therapeutic purge. The second time I attempted to do it I failed and felt frustrated. Eventually I understood how to enter that ‘door’ and started preparing before each session. Once in a while Im not in the right state of mind and I stop the session, find something else to do with my time.

Another painter told me this is a known thing and he described an exerice he was showing his students: take a piece of paper, a pencil and draw circles of any kinds, small circles, large circles, circumscribed circles, most likely the shape doesn’t matter but the repetitive mindless action. He said in half an hour or so you’d want add something to that shape, then add something else after which one can let go of the exercise and just let the flow take over. Never tried the exercise myself but I see it working. When I paint I have my own preparation ritual.

This works in other areas such as programming, though the experience is slightly different.

With afantasia though I found that what’s what’s holding me back is picturing other peoples code model in my head and often I feel a map would help.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#27

Post by nonameiguess »

tapper wrote: post #6

As a blind man this sounds like a load of BS to me! I have bin blind from berth and would have know want or need to invest all this time on something I can not see to enjoy the end product. How would you know which pics arr the rite ones? How can you show them to people when you cant even know what is on the piece of paper you are holding in your hand. If you put a pile of 10 pieces of paper in my hand and marked a l…

Thanks for saying this. Even seeing this title makes me immediately think surely blind people model the world, but they don't visualize it, just like my mental model doesn't involve the way matter interacts with radio.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#28

Post by haswell »

causi wrote: post #24
neom wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m soooo curious what that’s like!! Can you recall memories as pictures or movies? My memory is totally visual so I’m really curious how recall works for people who can’t visualize things? How do you remember stuff??

Also wondering if aphantasiacs have trouble with imagining voices, sounds, music. Do they ever get songs stuck in their head?

I have a bad visual memory. But when I remember things, instead of seeing things, it’s a general sense of knowing, and at times a sense of feeling.

If you asked me what it was like on the beach last weekend, I could tell you it was sandy, there was a vivid sunset, and there were a lot of people. I don’t see these things, I just know them.

If you asked me to describe the sunset in more detail, I might recall moments that stood out to me (there was this moment when the sun was creating this mile-long reflection from a building on the other side of the water), but that highlight is separate from the general recollection of the experience, i.e. it doesn’t come from looking back at the sunset itself, it’s an independent thing that stands out in my mind about the experience.

I don’t believe I actually “hear” sounds/my inner dialog, but sounds are easier to work with in my head. I’m musically inclined, and good at improvising on the piano. But I think the sounds I “hear” are closer to a reflection of the feelings I feel when hearing those sounds.

This is hard to describe, but if I wanted to intentionally imagine a melody, I can almost feel it in the back of my throat, as if my imagination of the sound is the feeling of what it’d be like to make that sound with my own voice.

I do get songs stuck in my head, but within this framework of imagining the feelings associated with the sounds.

I used to think I could hear these sounds, but closer observation over the years since I realized I have visual Aphantasia has revealed that it’s not so clear-cut. In the same way I thought I was “visualizing” by bringing feelings/knowledge about something to the surface.

I have an over-active internal dialog, but this also seems to manifest as some kind of reflection of the feelings associated with the thoughts. I understand the thoughts I’m thinking, but they’re more ephemeral than a voice.

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#29

Post by tiborsaas »

haswell wrote: post #8
enugu wrote: post #2

There is also this recently discovered phenomena of aphantasia which is fascinating. Lot of people dont have mental images and grow up not even aware that others can form such images. Here's one interesting account. https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22note_id%22%3A...

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully a…

I'm confused, I can "visualize" images in my head, memories or new things both. I know how everything fits together, I can have this "image" even with my eyes open. I can draw them, recall details and context. However, when I close my eyes I see dark perlin noise and nothing else. So maybe it is figure of speech?

Here's a visual test, but before clicking just imagine a red five-pointed star:

https://curingaphantasia.com/free-aphantasia-test/

Re: How blind photographers visualize the world

#30

Post by haswell »

tiborsaas wrote: post #29
haswell wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully a…

I'm confused, I can "visualize" images in my head, memories or new things both. I know how everything fits together, I can have this "image" even with my eyes open. I can draw them, recall details and context. However, when I close my eyes I see dark perlin noise and nothing else. So maybe it is figure of speech? Here's a visual test, but before clicking just imagine a red five-pointed star: https://curingaphantasia.…

The only way I can make new things with my eyes open is to draw them. I’ve come to rely on visualization tools to help make sense of ideas. I love endless canvas tools like Miro because I can actually work with ideas. When I close my eyes, I see #1.

Eyes open vs. eyes closed are two vastly different modes for the brain to operate in.

It seems that so much of what we see is based on context, it makes some sense that a fully populated visual field would provide more anchors for thought/visualization.

Depending on where you fall on the visualization spectrum, some people have reported the ability to improve their visualization abilities by practicing “Image Streaming” [0], which to me looks like a form of attention training/mindfulness.

Editing to add: that site rubs me a bit the wrong way. He’s selling memberships to content that claims to “cure” Aphantasia, but we don’t even understand how Aphantasia works, or if having it is even a “bad” thing. In any case, it seems wise not to limit your exploration to this particular site.

- [0] https://photographyinsider.info/image-streaming-for-photogra...

Post reply on HN