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Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

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Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#21

Post by dinkblam »

IntToDouble wrote: post #11
honkycat wrote: post #5

i killed my RSI that I had for YEARS by seriously over-hauling my workspace. I also went to occupational therapists who helped me figure out what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I use a moonlander split keyboard so my shoulders are properly spread out instead of hunched together, and my wrists and arms can fall at a more reasonable angle. I use a "tall" ergo mouse. This was a huge upgrade from my small mouse and…

+1 on weight lifting. Issues began when I stopped lifting. Since then, they flare/fade according to the 90 day trend line of gym attendance.

not scientific evidence but just one more data point to corroborate this line of thought.

i never had even the slightest wrist problems during 26 years of typing and software development - but i've also never stopped exercising, including frequent weight-lifting.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#22

Post by smokel »

agumonkey wrote: post #13

Here's a joke I often tell: I use emacs daily, my hands and fingers adjusted to the old bindings somehow. So whenever I used Eclipse and Java, I get serious RSI in less than 24H (the kind of acute/deep/radiating pain you don't want to ever feel)

You probably know this already, but Eclipse, and IntelliJ IDEA, and VSCode, support Emacs key bindings.

I toyed with Emacs key bindings in Microsoft Word, but that never felt comfortable. I also recall finding a lot of paper in the office printer when I tried C-p in Notepad :/

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#23

Post by Lapha »

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #15

I'm convinced that using the "mac layout" for your main modifier key (Cmd) is a huge improvement when it comes to comfort and reducing strain. If you're on another OS, you should remap Control to your Alt key. I've done this on my Windows & Linux machines, and it takes a few days to get used to, but it's just night and day. Pinky weak, thumb strong.

While it's not a direct parallel, I'd recommend people be careful with using your thumbs like this. I've been using a tiling window manager with the windows key as a modifier for years, but recently I've been having problems with strain in my thumb from switching workspaces 1-4 and toggling fullscreen/tiling (t and f keys). Had I used alt instead of the windows key it might have alleviated some of the problems as it's shifted to the right, but my hand position still ends up in the same position that gave me problems if I try to alt 4-6, e-t or d-g.

One remap I can fully recommend is remapping caps lock to control, it's an incredibly natural position to hit the very common ctrl-w,r,t,f,c,v hotkeys.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#24

Post by ris58h »

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #15

I'm convinced that using the "mac layout" for your main modifier key (Cmd) is a huge improvement when it comes to comfort and reducing strain. If you're on another OS, you should remap Control to your Alt key. I've done this on my Windows & Linux machines, and it takes a few days to get used to, but it's just night and day. Pinky weak, thumb strong.

This is the way. You can even do it on Android via custom keyboard layout.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#25

Post by _dain_ »

susam wrote: post #14
zitterbewegung wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remapping control to caps lock also could be used to avoid RSI.

The article at https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey says that some users get RSI by remapping 'ctrl' to 'caps lock'. Again, it is all anecdotal. There is no evidence or reference presented there. Only a vague claim at the top of the article. But I won't be surprised if it indeed turns out to be true. When 'ctrl' is mapped to 'caps lock', we use only the left hand to to type 'ctrl'. This leads to bad typin…

>This leads to bad typing practices like contorting your left hand to type both 'ctrl' (now mapped to 'caps lock') and 'x' with the same hand.

wait, how else are you meant to type CTRL-X?

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#26

Post by _dain_ »

webel0 wrote: post #6

Am I correct to understand that this is actually an issue for these people? As a programmer of far less exalted code, I’ve never felt like I was at risk of an RSI in my hands. (My neck is a different story.) I spend a lot more time thinking than typing. I wonder if this is because I program in a corporate setting, or if I’m just not as smart/fast at coding as these people, or if it is just a reflection of a different…

I think there may just be some genetic component. some people are way more susceptible to it than others.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#27

Post by throw47474777j »

aodonnell2536 wrote: post #12
honkycat wrote: post #5

i killed my RSI that I had for YEARS by seriously over-hauling my workspace. I also went to occupational therapists who helped me figure out what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I use a moonlander split keyboard so my shoulders are properly spread out instead of hunched together, and my wrists and arms can fall at a more reasonable angle. I use a "tall" ergo mouse. This was a huge upgrade from my small mouse and…

I’ve been strongly considering a split keyboard recently, and have been looking at (and loving the ergonomics of) the Moonlander, but struggle to reason paying $365 when every keyboard I’ve bought in the past has been <$80. Do you by chance know of any cheaper alternatives with similar ergonomics?

Are you a professional keyboard user? If so, I'd prioritize picking the keyboard that suits you best over price.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#28

Post by charbuff »

honkycat wrote: post #5

i killed my RSI that I had for YEARS by seriously over-hauling my workspace. I also went to occupational therapists who helped me figure out what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I use a moonlander split keyboard so my shoulders are properly spread out instead of hunched together, and my wrists and arms can fall at a more reasonable angle. I use a "tall" ergo mouse. This was a huge upgrade from my small mouse and…

I came her to comment on the quote from Ousterhout that, "It's not clear to me that you can ever "recover" from RSI; all you can do is stabilize at your current level of disability." I hope he got a chance to fully recover.

I too had debilitating RSI, leading to needing wrist braces and typing with a pencil lodged in my left hand and a few achy fingers on my right.

The book "It's Not Carpal Tunnel Syndrome!: RSI Theory and Therapy for Computer Professionals" [1] really opened my eyes on how to treat it.

I didn't start weight training, but did spend at least 20 minutes a day on trigger point therapy between my shoulder blades and elbow crease. That helped the most.

Then a vertical mouse, split keyboard, ergonomically placed chair, and correct table height helped prevent the recurrence.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Its-Carpal-Tunnel-Syndrome-Profession...

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#29

Post by Jtsummers »

_dain_ wrote: post #25
susam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article at https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey says that some users get RSI by remapping 'ctrl' to 'caps lock'. Again, it is all anecdotal. There is no evidence or reference presented there. Only a vague claim at the top of the article. But I won't be surprised if it indeed turns out to be true. When 'ctrl' is mapped to 'caps lock', we use only the left hand to to type 'ctrl'. This leads to bad typin…

>This leads to bad typing practices like contorting your left hand to type both 'ctrl' (now mapped to 'caps lock') and 'x' with the same hand. wait, how else are you meant to type CTRL-X?

Right pinky control key and left middle finger `x`. Or switch to Dvorak and it's easiest to use left pinky on control and right index finger on `x` (`x` on Dvorak is the same as `b` in QWERTY).

I actually found most of the popular chords were much easier to type when I switched to Dvorak.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#30

Post by evilduck »

tinix wrote: post #18
jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #15

I'm convinced that using the "mac layout" for your main modifier key (Cmd) is a huge improvement when it comes to comfort and reducing strain. If you're on another OS, you should remap Control to your Alt key. I've done this on my Windows & Linux machines, and it takes a few days to get used to, but it's just night and day. Pinky weak, thumb strong.

Macbook keyboard gave me RSI, it's like smashing your fingers on marble. Using mechanical switches and caps lock for control is better for me, but indeed, stretching for frequent modifiers is bad.

If you have RSI you’d actually be better off learning to type lightly on the MacBook keyboard. Mechanical switches are making your poor ergonomic behavior less painful but the fix is to train yourself to type with less downward force.

Alternatively you could also try tactiles and the lightest springs you can tolerate and learn to not bottom out while still actuating the switch.

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