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Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

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Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#21

Post by jiggy2011 »

_delirium wrote: post #2

Huh, I had thought the "brogrammer" thing was a parody, not a serious self-description. I usually run across variants of the descriptor "bro-ish" as derogatory, not something people actually want to call themselves; for example, "brostep" is a derogatory term for a subgenre of dubstep that dubstep purists don't like, not something people proudly call their own music. But I'm admittedly totally out of this particular…

Problem is , if this catches on with recruiters who will use it very non ironically like "rockstar".

How long until we see "Brogrammer needed" ads

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#22

Post by WiseWeasel »

oacgnol wrote: post #17
jroseattle wrote: post #14

Pretty sure the entire brogrammer meme was meant tongue-in-cheek, and humor aimed directly at developers. Besides, anyone who might actually carry on in brogrammer style would soon learn the acronym CLM -- career limiting maneuver.

Agree. I don't see how you could take "brogramming" seriously, it's just a meme. At my company it's a running joke. That said, if you do happen to meet someone who takes it seriously and lives that "life", then they're dumber than you think they are.

If that was the best social solution they could find, do you really want them near your codebase in any case? : P

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#24

Post by _delirium »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #21
_delirium wrote: post #2

Huh, I had thought the "brogrammer" thing was a parody, not a serious self-description. I usually run across variants of the descriptor "bro-ish" as derogatory, not something people actually want to call themselves; for example, "brostep" is a derogatory term for a subgenre of dubstep that dubstep purists don't like, not something people proudly call their own music. But I'm admittedly totally out of this particular…

Problem is , if this catches on with recruiters who will use it very non ironically like "rockstar". How long until we see "Brogrammer needed" ads

Now that I think of it, there was actually a YC company's recruiting post on HN that used it (not entirely clear how seriously), which created a bit of a backlash: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3168038

I think it's probably not a good recruiting strategy, because it telegraphs both that this might be a problematic opening for women, and that anyone worried they'll be deemed too egghead/nerdy might want to pass. Even if you don't care about sexism (which you should), a job ad that implies that nerdy programmers may not be welcome really restricts the size of the candidate pool. On the other hand, if that's the company culture, maybe it's better to know ahead of time...

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#25

Post by tokenadult »

DarkShikari wrote: post #4

From Urban Dictionary: brogrammer, n.: A programmer who breaks the usual expectations of quiet nerdiness and opts instead for the usual trappings of a frat-boy: popped collars, bad beer, and calling everybody "bro". Despised by everyone, especially other programmers. Ex: Oh my god, John is talking about football and chicks again. That guy is such a brogrammer. See also: programmer, frat boy, bro, douchebag, developer…

Most other programmers probably don't appreciate a "bro" constantly talking about his sexual conquests instead of interesting technical topics or hobbies.

Definitely. I can hardly imagine anything more off-putting. Alas, I have seen that kind of crude bragging in Hacker News comments every once in a while. The Hacker News readership skews young, so many of the participants here are still trying to establish long-term relationships. As someone who is approaching thirty years of marriage, I no longer have the preoccupation of finding the next girl--and I really never did, as I was looking for the ONE girl I could count on to be a good wife for a lifetime and a good mother for any children we happened to have. It has not escaped my notice that many Hacker News participants are still looking for ways to build a deep relationship with someone. I don't think bragging up one-night stands provides answers for the many readers here who have questions about that.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#26

Post by lizzard »

DarkShikari wrote: post #4

From Urban Dictionary: brogrammer, n.: A programmer who breaks the usual expectations of quiet nerdiness and opts instead for the usual trappings of a frat-boy: popped collars, bad beer, and calling everybody "bro". Despised by everyone, especially other programmers. Ex: Oh my god, John is talking about football and chicks again. That guy is such a brogrammer. See also: programmer, frat boy, bro, douchebag, developer…

Hipster irony that sounds and behaves exactly like actual misogyny, as far as I'm concerned, is actual misogyny.

A lot of bigotry and exclusionary behavior is couched in terms of being "just a joke".

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#27

Post by alexholehouse »

ilamont wrote: post #23

FWIW, only 17 people turned up in a people search for "brogrammer" in LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/search/fpsearch?type=people&keyw... That compares with more than 914,000 results for a people search of "programmer"

To be honest, I can't think of any bigger red flag on a LinkedIn profile than being a self-declared brogrammer.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#28

Post by jiggy2011 »

philwelch wrote: post #18
jiggy2011 wrote: post #6

This is nothing new, back in ~2004 when I was at university for CS there were plenty of students who were desperate to shed the "nerdy" image and would compensate taking up macho hobbies like bodybuilding , playing metal music, martial arts or motorcycling or by drinking large amounts and getting high every weekend. The whole brogrammer meme reminds me a lot of DHH. Whenever you see him speak he is always dressed and…

Hey now. Metal music and martial arts are time-honored hobbies for nerds.

That's sort of my point. The original nerdy stereotype is somebody with big teeth , a comb-over and a checked shirt tucked into corduroy pants, possibly also a neck beard.

The next generation of nerds distanced themselves from this somewhat by wearing heavy metal T shirts, having long hair and tattoos.

This became uncool too, so now we have the "brogrammer" with designer polo shirts and dark glasses.

It's interesting because nerds are regarded as "uncool" but I find it is quite often they are culturally ahead of the curve.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#29

Post by ktsmith »

_delirium wrote: post #2

Huh, I had thought the "brogrammer" thing was a parody, not a serious self-description. I usually run across variants of the descriptor "bro-ish" as derogatory, not something people actually want to call themselves; for example, "brostep" is a derogatory term for a subgenre of dubstep that dubstep purists don't like, not something people proudly call their own music. But I'm admittedly totally out of this particular…

There's been a few posts on here and reddit about brogrammers at facebook and zynga that were completely serious. If I recall correctly there was a recruitment post here not that long ago where the entire post was about looking for "brogrammers" and based on the comments of the poster he was 100% completely serious even with the negative feedback from the other posters.

Re: Call yourself a 'brogrammer'? Then get the hell away from me.

#30

Post by feedbackloop »

One thing I've always liked about programming is the technical culture of getting things done. What offends me about this 'brogrammer' idea is that it tries to turn programming into yet another fashion.

"We're the cool programmers" is particularly offensive because it alienates people who have been doing work in this area for some time.

I can understand wanting to refine your image but do it without slapping labels on something that belongs to many people, not just you.

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