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TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

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Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#21

Post by sologoub »

_ktx2 wrote: post #19
hinata08 wrote: post #2

Remember when global surveillance used to be a meme among conspiracy theorists ? Pepperidge Farm remembers What can we say about a corporation doing a trust score for half of the connected population in the world ? I wonder about their ego, or what went wrong in their management.

> I wonder about their ego, or what went wrong in their management. The article didn't insinuate that data is being used to objectively harm users. It's being used to generate "trust scores" for anti-fraud systems. The specific example given in their piece is allowing a user to attach a certain number for SMS verification. Rather, the point here is that such data could be used to objectively harm users, so those user…

It likely does cause users to be treated differently and that may not always be lawful or in users best interest. I was forced to go to a bank branch likely because my provider doesn’t share the data. Better yet, when I realized my mistake of dealing with the said bank, going to the branch was the only way to stop the application.

Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#22

Post by jaclaz »

donkeyd wrote: post #12
methou wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the full name have to be your legal name? I use different names/email on every site, but phone numbers are always these 2~3 numbers. If I'm going to send a deletion request under GDPR alike laws, it would be under different names.

> Does the full name have to be your legal name? Pretty much. Only your person has rights, not the fake identities you created. They can actually request a copy of an ID or something comparable to confirm your identity. You might have a hard time removing your data, in some cases, when using fake names since then your identity can't be confirmed.

Yes, and unlike a sign up for a random site, you are actually stating the info and signing the form, it is as "official" a document as a non-notarized/non-certified one can be, there could be (improbable anyway in practice) legal consequences if you sign something with fake or non-existing data, it is a false declaration.

And when you (if asked/needed by the procedure) provide a copy of your ID, you are actually giving them other data points, like your birth date, often nationality, and in some cases even the address of residence.

Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#23

Post by flangola7 »

wuiheerfoj wrote: post #18
hashstring wrote: post #3

I do not agree with these practices. However, I do think there is room for protocols that verify phone numbers in a way. The spam and fraudulent calls that people receive and are hard to distinguish from “good” calls is a problem that deserves more attention.

This would be a nice use case but the reality is everyone still gets a boatload of scam calls, so these companies are farming the data and using it against us instead of for us

> This would be a nice use case but the reality is everyone still gets a boatload of scam calls

Scam calls are almost unheard of in Europe. Why is it such a problem in the US?

Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#24

Post by calgoo »

flangola7 wrote: post #23
wuiheerfoj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a nice use case but the reality is everyone still gets a boatload of scam calls, so these companies are farming the data and using it against us instead of for us

> This would be a nice use case but the reality is everyone still gets a boatload of scam calls Scam calls are almost unheard of in Europe. Why is it such a problem in the US?

I get a bunch of scam sms messages and calls from scam financial firms here in Spain. That’s ignoring all the local spam calls from every phone provider and insurance company here.

Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#27

Post by humanistbot »

lxe wrote: post #25

Is there any legal way to obtain your own data from these companies? Does the US have any law that compels them to provide my own data they have on me and any derivative scores they calculate from it?

California does, but not federally.

Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#28

Post by lxe »

humanistbot wrote: post #27
lxe wrote: post #25

Is there any legal way to obtain your own data from these companies? Does the US have any law that compels them to provide my own data they have on me and any derivative scores they calculate from it?

California does, but not federally.

So as a California resident, I can request data from them under CCPA? According to this: https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa#sectionc, yes?

Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#29

Post by csomar »

WanderPanda wrote: post #26

Whats up with companies like BICS and SWIFT being in Belgium, is it just chance or is there more to it?

SWIFT was founded 50 years ago, around the time of the Brenton woods system collapse. BICS parent company seems to be much older, from the telegraph era.

These are mostly behemoth created as a consequence of the West rising at the time.

Re: TeleSign profiles half of the world’s mobile phone users

#30

Post by velavar »

I work in fraud prevention with vendors such as this. Let me be the devil's advocate here: trust and risk scores such as these are often very useful for identifying account takeovers and stolen identities in the financial and telecom worlds. We often see folks on HN complaining about how banks don't protect them from fraud losses - companies like this are how there is any hope left for some modicum of consumer protection.

You may ask: Then why do banks not protect me from losses better? I say: They're already doing something (invisible as it may be). They can definitely do a better job. But without companies such as Telesign, fraud losses would far, far worse.

You may ask: What if my data gathered is used for nefarious purposes? I say: In my experience, data such as this is not allowed to be used for marketing purposes but strictly for consumer protection. I'm not specifically speaking about TeleSign but similar vendors. The worst that should happen is that you get a transaction declined, or get denied for a credit card etc. But no marketing or any other manipulative practice is allowed, in theory.

Happy to answer any questions you may have :)

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