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Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

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Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#21

Post by zorrolovsky »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #3

I think it's inevitable that at some point some legislation like the OSB will pass in most western countries. It's going to drive the people who have the know how underground, and anyone engaging in protecting their privacy will be considered a criminal. We're already creeping toward that IMO.

Defeatism adds to the problem and it doesn't bring solutions. If we're already accepting that idiotic laws will pass, obviously they will. Let's call this what it is: a myopic and totalitarian law created by misinformed and clueless politicians. Let's fight it tooth and nail until we bury it.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#23

Post by mnw21cam »

blitzar wrote: post #20
pjc50 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not going to be enforced that way even if that's what the text says. Although it might get spicy if one of the megacorps decides the legal risk is real and withdraws from the UK market.

If it is implemented as per the legislation, the UK would need to be disconnected from the global internet, and most activity economic or otherwise would cease overnight. I should really retract my original position, things in the UK would be very different. Honestly, it kind of needs to happen properly, otherwise people will never learn. Allowing these half baked pieces of legislation to pass and then not implementi…

There's a general "bad" when law are enacted and then not enforced, especially if it's a law that most people would naturally break because it's a silly law. It allows the authorities to persecute chosen individuals while not actually achieving anything that the law as written looks like it should be trying to achieve.

And this is a silly law. Everyone will break it, every time they use an encrypted communication, which is pretty-much every single thing one does on the internet these days. It's a perfect recipe for the authorities to let everyone carry on as normal, then when they want to crush someone they're certain to find some law that they have broken like this one.

We should be throwing out such laws.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#24

Post by blitzar »

mnw21cam wrote: post #23
blitzar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is implemented as per the legislation, the UK would need to be disconnected from the global internet, and most activity economic or otherwise would cease overnight. I should really retract my original position, things in the UK would be very different. Honestly, it kind of needs to happen properly, otherwise people will never learn. Allowing these half baked pieces of legislation to pass and then not implementi…

There's a general "bad" when law are enacted and then not enforced, especially if it's a law that most people would naturally break because it's a silly law. It allows the authorities to persecute chosen individuals while not actually achieving anything that the law as written looks like it should be trying to achieve. And this is a silly law. Everyone will break it, every time they use an encrypted communication, wh…

> then when they want to crush someone they're certain to find some law that they have broken like this one

The will get a prosecution after catching red-handed a mass murdering terrorist or a pedo with kids locked in their basement because they did an online shop which "used encryption". The authors will claim victory, without these protections we couldnt lock these people up, the Sun and the Mail readers will lap it up. 5 counts of murder and 1 count of doing an online tesco shop.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#25

Post by tenpies »

PrimeMcFly wrote: post #3

I think it's inevitable that at some point some legislation like the OSB will pass in most western countries. It's going to drive the people who have the know how underground, and anyone engaging in protecting their privacy will be considered a criminal. We're already creeping toward that IMO.

My hope is that some comparatively insignificant Western country passes it first, makes international news when it cripples its own technological capacity and infrastructure, and then that becomes the cautionary tale.

My money is on Canada. The Trudeau Liberals passed their first of three internet control and censorship bills, C-18, and it has already backfired stupendously. It's quite similiar to Australia's similiar bill to force some companies to pay for linking to news content, but the Liberals saw that and thought "we should try it too!". Same result, Google basically said "no problem, we won't link to news in Canada".

However, unlike Australia, the Canadian Liberals are doubling down. New tax payer-funded subsidies for Canadian news are already being discussed to make up for the lost revenue the legislation caused. The Liberal-funded media is also trying to paint this as evil greedy foreign capitalist technology companies refusing to pay their fair share for exploiting Canadian news companies.

But that's why my money is on Canada. It has the perfect blend of incompetent leadership, empowered by another party that helps them pass any legislation no matter what, and constituents that are largely apathetic to anything that happens.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#26

Post by tjpnz »

psychphysic wrote: post #22

Bigger question how will safe messaging apps exit the market? Will people need a number for a privacy friendly foreign nation to continue access?

The apps would be delisted in the UK app stores and will eventually stop working for existing users when not updated. That's also a security issue in itself.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#27

Post by psychphysic »

tjpnz wrote: post #26
psychphysic wrote: post #22

Bigger question how will safe messaging apps exit the market? Will people need a number for a privacy friendly foreign nation to continue access?

The apps would be delisted in the UK app stores and will eventually stop working for existing users when not updated. That's also a security issue in itself.

It'll be a matter of installing the app "from unknown source" then?

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#28

Post by zirgs »

psychphysic wrote: post #27
tjpnz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apps would be delisted in the UK app stores and will eventually stop working for existing users when not updated. That's also a security issue in itself.

It'll be a matter of installing the app "from unknown source" then?

Can't do that on iOS.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#29

Post by jkaplowitz »

sneak wrote: post #19
miohtama wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would happen in the ideal world: - All online messenger providers (Whatsapp, Signal, Telegram) e.g. withdraw from the UK market. Meta and Google gave a taste for this after Canadian link law. - UK needs to come up with a crappy homebrew messenger ecosystem no one uses. Maybe a messenger.gov.uk? - People download applications with privacy and sideload them to their mobile phones, keep going with their business as…

Closing the sideloading hole on Android then becomes the next step. It's already a nonissue on the most popular device. Eventually the sale of devices that don't include cryptographic controls to prevent terrorists from misusing them to evade terrorist surveillance will be outlawed.

In the EU (which I know no longer includes the UK), both Apple and Google will have to allow sideloading in their operating systems by early 2024, because they* are expected to be designated as gatekeepers under the new Digital Markets Act no later than early September 2023, and after being designated they’ll have six months to comply. So the feature to sideload will continue to exist in Android and will be added to iOS, although they could choose to enable it only in the EU or to block it in the UK.

*If you choose to fact-check this, be aware that technically the European Commission will be designating Alphabet, Google’s parent company, rather than one of the multiple subsidiaries with Google in its name. So the official EU communications about this may not mention the word Google.

Re: Open Letter from Security Researchers in Relation to the Online Safety Bill [pdf]

#30

Post by tourmalinetaco »

psychphysic wrote: post #27
tjpnz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apps would be delisted in the UK app stores and will eventually stop working for existing users when not updated. That's also a security issue in itself.

It'll be a matter of installing the app "from unknown source" then?

Which, unfortunately, is a rather risky situation considering for instance all the rogue ChatGPT-branded extensions and apps people downloaded without a second thought to their legitimacy.

We have been conditioned to view branding as the certificate of legitimacy, and that simply is not true for the Internet where branding can be copied and pasted in seconds.

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