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An open challenge to PandoDaily

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Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#21

Post by moadeel »

smacktoward wrote: post #15
untog wrote: post #6

This is a false comparison. Uploading your address book to Path is not the same as an app locally reading the contents of your clipboard and asking if you want to use that data. It's not even in the same league. And, loathe though I am to defend PandoDaily, the OP misses the point of their article. Uploading your address book to an app is different than posting it publicly because people trust Path their their data.…

> Uploading your address book to an app is different than posting it publicly because people trust Path their their data. Are you sure about this? Has every Path user really reviewed Path's data security policies and deemed them satisfactory? Do Path users even have access to that information? And if they did, would most of them be in any position to evaluate it knowledgeably? Or isn't it more likely that they trust…

Yes, I think it is quite a clear statement. Uploading to an app is not the same as posting it publicly.

Other points that you are mentioning have more to do with user's willingness to take privacy seriously. Most don't take it seriously because a) it's tedious and time-consuming b) they probably don't understand it c) it is easier to trust the company like everyone else and get onto using the app and 4) ... as long as it does not include criminal, financial, health or their telephone records, everything is pretty much a go go for a user.

Users don't care about their privacy unless it has elements of the 4 categories stated above. Users hate hassle and they have pretty much resigned from the fight for privacy mainly because they have found that the benefit of sharing things with others outweighs the willingness to be clear of a trouble that rarely every shows up in their conscience anyway .... think about it ... when was the last time a major security breach occurred that compromised so many millions and devastated so many thousands that it has left a blip or a bad mark on users conscience.

We maybe very techi ... but average users are far more occupied with other concerns. So blind trust plays a strong role for them.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#22

Post by davewiner »

falling wrote: post #17

So, since every single application in your computer can access all of the same data and do whatever they please, has had that ability since forever and we see that as an advantage (see problems with adding sandboxing on the Mac), why are we so concerned about it on our phones and completely ignore the issues otherwise? The only reason I could come up with is that on the phone we have apps that actually use that data,…

People are much less careful with what they download and install on their iPads and iPhones because of Apple's assurance that the apps are safe.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#23

Post by AznHisoka »

cheald wrote: post #8
AznHisoka wrote: post #4

Nice try. No Pagerank for you!

....do...you even know who Dave Winer is?

why does that matter? I'm judging the content of the article, and it's just accusing another blog of something, just drama.. no valuable content here. just pointless, trivial drama looking for an ego boost.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#24

Post by nutanc »

Nice post. If an application on our computers would upload all our contact details, our bookmarks etc to their servers to make it "easy" for us, would we agree to that. Guess we are just using these apps without worrying about the security. Good that people like Dave are bringing it out to the open.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#25

Post by untog »

davewiner wrote: post #14
untog wrote: post #6

This is a false comparison. Uploading your address book to Path is not the same as an app locally reading the contents of your clipboard and asking if you want to use that data. It's not even in the same league. And, loathe though I am to defend PandoDaily, the OP misses the point of their article. Uploading your address book to an app is different than posting it publicly because people trust Path their their data.…

Sorry but I think you're missing some data here. Every app on the iPhone can upload your address book, pictures and calendar data to their servers, whether or not they have anything to do with contacts. Every app. It's worth taking a look at the trivial crap we put on our iPads and iPhones thinking they're harmless, when each of them could be leaking all our private bits everywhere.

No, I'm aware of that. What I am saying is that uploading data to an app, no matter what that app may be, is not the same as posting it publicly.

When you upload to an app, the makers of that app have access to your data. Don't get me wrong- that's a bad thing. But if you upload your data publicly, anyone in the world has access to your data. Drastically different.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#26

Post by jimbobimbo »

michaelmior wrote: post #2

I think the point of the PandoDaily post was that you're already trusting apps with access to your data. You've granted permission for the app to access it any time. When I grant permissions for an app to access by data, this doesn't mean I am allowing my data to be published for the world to see. That's what privacy policies are for.

...and Dave response's point is that there's no way to guarantee the privacy policy is obeyed, unless it is enforced one way or another. User expectations with regards to the private data were supposed to be guarded by App Store approval process and Apple's iOS access restrictions, however this and now photos somehow slipped through.

Pando's mocking of the situation with clipboard example is off the mark. User's expectations from the clipboard is to actually share data (between the applications). Yes, there's a chance that app will publish the contents of your clipboard, but I don't think many users will store sensitive data in the clipboard anyway. In other words - vulnerability of the clipboard is an acceptable trade-off, however accessibility of contacts, photos, other private data is really not.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#27

Post by billpatrianakos »

smacktoward wrote: post #15
untog wrote: post #6

This is a false comparison. Uploading your address book to Path is not the same as an app locally reading the contents of your clipboard and asking if you want to use that data. It's not even in the same league. And, loathe though I am to defend PandoDaily, the OP misses the point of their article. Uploading your address book to an app is different than posting it publicly because people trust Path their their data.…

> Uploading your address book to an app is different than posting it publicly because people trust Path their their data. Are you sure about this? Has every Path user really reviewed Path's data security policies and deemed them satisfactory? Do Path users even have access to that information? And if they did, would most of them be in any position to evaluate it knowledgeably? Or isn't it more likely that they trust…

I'd argue that ven if they read the security policy they wouldn't understand it anyway. When you're surrounded by hackers it's easy to think everyone has some basic understanding of computers but in reality most people are lucky if they know how print a damn Word document.

This really is a false comparison. Accessing an address book for the app's use only and accessing the address book for public publishing are so far apart it's ridiculous. Security policies don't mean anything. If data is stored digitally there will always be a way to compromise its security no matter how much encryption, SSL, etc. you use. Security, especially on the web is a total misnomer. All you can really do is make it inconvenient to access.

Trusting a company isn't about their data privacy and security policies. It's about their brand to a large degree. Their track record and other peoples' experiences with the app. I'm in the camp that understands these policies and what they mean but thats not the reason I trust the company behind an app. I trust Google with my docs because they have a good track record. Facebook I trust as a necessary evil. Scratch that, I don't trust Facebook but I use it anyway because I'm banking on the odds. I think that's what it boils down to for most average folks. If the odds are that they'll have no trouble then that's a risk they're willing to take. If there's a breach of security and a bunch of people have their data exposed (but I'm not affected) well that makes me think twice not because of the breach itself but because of all the pile-on press coverage.

I'm one who firmly believes that people don't make their own minds up about this stuff. The average person's view of this whole app uploading address books thing is based purely in whichever side of the manufactured debate is the loudest and seemingly most expert-y. After watching how people use the web, their computers, and their smartphones for some time now I've become really cynical when it comes to this stuff. People don't seem to care until someone writes a blog post that tells them they should care.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#28

Post by cheald »

AznHisoka wrote: post #23
cheald wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

....do...you even know who Dave Winer is?

why does that matter? I'm judging the content of the article, and it's just accusing another blog of something, just drama.. no valuable content here. just pointless, trivial drama looking for an ego boost.

Hint: scripting.com has a better pagerank than PandoDaily.

He's the guy who practically invented blogging.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#29

Post by davewiner »

untog wrote: post #25
davewiner wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I think you're missing some data here. Every app on the iPhone can upload your address book, pictures and calendar data to their servers, whether or not they have anything to do with contacts. Every app. It's worth taking a look at the trivial crap we put on our iPads and iPhones thinking they're harmless, when each of them could be leaking all our private bits everywhere.

No, I'm aware of that. What I am saying is that uploading data to an app, no matter what that app may be, is not the same as posting it publicly. When you upload to an app, the makers of that app have access to your data. Don't get me wrong- that's a bad thing. But if you upload your data publicly, anyone in the world has access to your data. Drastically different.

Nothing personal, but I think it's naive to assume that.

I once did a deal with a software publisher that required me to turn over the source code.

One day I came into the office and found a disk clearly labeled as the source for my product, on the receptionists desk.

That was pretty close to public, and I remember that every time I let something sensitive out of my control.

Also every few months I have to change my credit card number because a charge appears that I didn't make. Luckily the credit card companies have developed good algorithms for detecting these. Now you might assume that every company that you give your CC to is being careful not to make it public, but if you believe that, you aren't reading the news.

Re: An open challenge to PandoDaily

#30

Post by tatsuke95 »

Pando Daily appears to be trying to recreate the TechCrunch of last year, rather than the TechCrunch of 3+ years ago. This is the same guy who wrote the mocking article on Ireland's startup scene. I guess he's filling the MG Siegler role.

You know what would be awesome? Some solid technology journalism. The last thing we need is another conflicted, industry mouthpiece. If this is the content they're pushing, I hope it fades into oblivion.

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