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Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

movingthelimit.com

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Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#21
post #4

Another common reason for self-sabotage that the article doesn’t mention is ego. Failure sucks, especially when it’s because you just aren’t good enough. But if you self-sabotage, at least you were right. You thought you’d fail and you did fail. Ego wins! And who knows, maybe if you actually tried, you wouldn’t have failed! You weren’t not good enough after all, you just didn’t try. You totally could’ve done it if yo…

It is a common thing among those who grow up being praised for their intelligence. If one comes to base their self-worth on their intelligence and believe it is a static quality they were born with, struggling and/or failing could demonstrate that perhaps they weren't as smart as people gave them credit for and thus decrease their inherent self-worth. They quit things if they don't immediately excel at them or just adopt the "slacker" role and put in minimal effort, brushing off their failures as merely the result of not really caring about whatever it was they were attempting. "Eh, I could have been good at [x], but it bored me" or whatever

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#22

A bunch of Harvard grads I know have ridden that name for a decade. A small example, one was slacking off in a tech company, got laid off. They raised 1M to "do AI", with no technical skills at all. They hired a dev, six months later with no product raised a 5M seed round at a 25M valuation. No product released.

Sounds like that Harvard education really paid off!

Yeah it absolutely does!

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#23
Ordinary folk self sabotage as well, you don't have to be an over achieving ivy league student to be that way. No one likes failure and many people understand their societal worth is bound to their status/career and not to who they are as a person; hence the status anxiety and the (sometimes) self sabotaging behavior.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#24
post #4

Another common reason for self-sabotage that the article doesn’t mention is ego. Failure sucks, especially when it’s because you just aren’t good enough. But if you self-sabotage, at least you were right. You thought you’d fail and you did fail. Ego wins! And who knows, maybe if you actually tried, you wouldn’t have failed! You weren’t not good enough after all, you just didn’t try. You totally could’ve done it if yo…

You misunderstand, the entire article is about ego it is just not framed as such. They have a debilitating ego problem preventing them from doing anything that migh result in a hit to it.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#25
post #4

Another common reason for self-sabotage that the article doesn’t mention is ego. Failure sucks, especially when it’s because you just aren’t good enough. But if you self-sabotage, at least you were right. You thought you’d fail and you did fail. Ego wins! And who knows, maybe if you actually tried, you wouldn’t have failed! You weren’t not good enough after all, you just didn’t try. You totally could’ve done it if yo…

Could be they just get tired of the falsity of their role in modern American corporate culture just like the rest of us. But when they burn out it’s more visible. Why shouldn’t they want to have opinions and goals and have needs that aren’t compatible with what they do for a living just like everyone else?

> Why shouldn’t they want to have opinions and goals and have needs that aren’t compatible with what they do for a living just like everyone else?

The article is about people who say they want these things, but act in a way that ensures they won’t get what they claim to want.

If they’re lying and don’t actually want the achievements they claim to want, that’s hard to tell from outside. Best we can do is take their word. But you are right that revealed preferences win in the end. You are what you do.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#26
Created a new account to share openly since this so resonated with me…

I was told non stop growing up how gifted I was by my parents and teachers. When I didn’t get into my dream college it was earth shattering for someone receiving that level of praise. It was a personal failure.

I started smoking weed, but quickly progressed to other substances. One time I’d smoked DMT right before a final. I’d rack up lines of coke to study (with a little whiskey to take the edge off). I kept not fully applying myself for the exact reasons in the article.

It took almost a decade for me to understand having a growth mindset and I still honestly struggle with it. My big lesson here is to focus more on the process and less on the outcome.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#27
post #5

I studied at Harvard and the answer is that they want to pretend to be so smart and talented that they don't need to work. The image is of the effete aristocrat who enjoys life without lifting a finger. Think of George W. Bush: Got into Yale (Harvard too!) because his blue-blood line always did. Mediocre grades. Lots of alcohol and drugs. (Quit that later.) Avoided Vietnam with the cushiest fun job as a fighter pilot…

[deleted]

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#28

Or maybe they realize that once there is "Ivy League" on your resume, you pretty much cannot fail at life and will always find a good job no matter what, so might as well have a good time, instead of spending all your free time studying in pursuit of prestige.

I know at my work they purposefully did not hire an ivy league grad with a masters because they figured they wouldn't stick around long.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#29
I think what’s described in this post is the issue for some high-achieving students (Ivy or not) when it comes to self-sabotage but there’s a few others:

My personal story involved two years of self-sabotage. However it wasn’t intentional, nor was I hiding from failure, I just didn’t know how to go about achieving my potential. School was trivial for me before college minus my freshman year of high school, in which my grades were still good, I just got assigned an inordinate amount of homework every night and was programmed to do all the assigned readings etc. By the end of high school, I figured out how to do the bare minimum necessary to succeed and get As. College…doesn’t really work that way. I worked the same way I did in high school and got anything from As to Cs based on my natural aptitude for the subject. When I did study for exams I wasn’t studying effectively. If I didn’t know how to solve a homework problem, I just skipped it and figured it didn’t matter in the wash.

That continued for me until I did work in a lab as a junior, met PhD students and postdocs, and realized I wanted to get a PhD myself because I found what they did fascinating. The last two years were very stressful for me since I had to improve my B+ GPA so I could get into a good program, but my PhD student friends showed how I should be approaching college and I managed to fix a lot of my bad habits. I remember early on expressing my doubts I’d be able to pull it off to one of the postdocs early and he said “I don’t get it, you’re a smart guy, why is your transcript fully of Bs and Cs?” The answer really was that I just didn’t know how poorly I was applying myself.

The other issue that afflicted me to a degree in my early years but afflicted many people I knew more significantly during my time as an undergrad at an Ivy was that they didn’t know what they wanted to do after. These people often had better grades than me and were studying something that they enjoyed but they weren’t thinking about their career after school. They didn’t do internships or extracurriculars that might help them figure out their interests. They spent their summers studying abroad, relaxing at home, etc. While there’s nothing wrong with those things in a vacuum, it meant that they left school with a good GPA (or not because they didn’t have a goal and thus didn’t see a need to apply themselves), a fairly empty resume, and no clue what they wanted to do with their lives. Up until this point was the tacit assumption that they were smart and went to a good school and they’d find a good job they liked at the end of the road. However, due to how they spent their college years, they had to spend a good chunk of their 20s figuring out what they wanted from their lives. During that period they worked uninspiring jobs they certainly didn’t need an Ivy League education to get and sometimes required going back for a masters to retool themselves once they found a passion.

These issues seemed quite universal. It didn’t matter what your legacy status or family background was, it was just not obvious how to make the most out of college until it was too late for many of us. This is probably equally a problem at less highly ranked schools, but given that Ivies tend to collect motivated people, our struggle to succeed is under more of a microscope.

Re: Why do Ivy League students self-sabotage?

#30
As a fan if Fantasy, this article reminds me of Lev Grossman's The Magicians. It comes from very similar experiences the author had going to an Ivy League school. It is probably the best deconstruction of the magical school (think Harry Potter) subgenre because it touches on such real human experiences.

Most of the cast are people who did well in high school and were suddenly transported into an environment where they weren't special. It turns out being transported into a magical world doesn't make your problems go away.

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