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Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

kalzumeus.com

21–30 of 48 posts

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#21
post #3

Just to add an important caveat to the promise of the headline. When you reach a certain point, earning more money usually comes with increasing downsides. Managers at most well-run, larger companies will expect more than just your reasonable best efforts. As you move up the ladder they will demand consistent delivery of specific, tangible results. Sometimes you'll be required to achieve these results with insufficie…

God forbid people get value of the money they pay you

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#23
post #3

Just to add an important caveat to the promise of the headline. When you reach a certain point, earning more money usually comes with increasing downsides. Managers at most well-run, larger companies will expect more than just your reasonable best efforts. As you move up the ladder they will demand consistent delivery of specific, tangible results. Sometimes you'll be required to achieve these results with insufficie…

The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. So if you don't go up in salary, you get out. Generally you start to plan your exit with that salary increase in mine. Every recruiter wants to kno…

[deleted]

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#24
post #3

Just to add an important caveat to the promise of the headline. When you reach a certain point, earning more money usually comes with increasing downsides. Managers at most well-run, larger companies will expect more than just your reasonable best efforts. As you move up the ladder they will demand consistent delivery of specific, tangible results. Sometimes you'll be required to achieve these results with insufficie…

The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. So if you don't go up in salary, you get out. Generally you start to plan your exit with that salary increase in mine. Every recruiter wants to kno…

> The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making.

Personally, I don't think this is true as companies or people think it is.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#25
post #3

Just to add an important caveat to the promise of the headline. When you reach a certain point, earning more money usually comes with increasing downsides. Managers at most well-run, larger companies will expect more than just your reasonable best efforts. As you move up the ladder they will demand consistent delivery of specific, tangible results. Sometimes you'll be required to achieve these results with insufficie…

I don't think this is true. It has more to do with level rather than the absolute pay. Suppose you had two senior hires and one was able to negotiate more pay, the company won't necessarily expect more from the higher paid one. On a slightly different note, from my experience, companies who pay less actually expect just as much if not more than companies who pay competitively.

“Position in band” is often a factor in performance reviews. Consider a common process - say you’re “senior level” and in your review you’ll be rated on six categories, then given a raise based on where you are overall relative to “meets expectations.”

If you’re senior but at the bottom of the senior band, and you’re mostly “at expectations” for your level but maybe “slightly below” in 1-2 categories, you’ll probably still net out at “meets” with a normal raise. If you’re senior but the highest paid senior - that’s probably going to net out at “below” overall, or zero-to-small raise.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#26
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. So if you don't go up in salary, you get out. Generally you start to plan your exit with that salary increase in mine. Every recruiter wants to kno…

> The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. Personally, I don't think this is true as companies or people think it is.

I've never gone more than 12 business days after an abrupt exit in the three times I've convinced myself to do it. That being said one should _always_ keep their employment options open (and available).

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#27
This is the crucial, but also most difficult part:

> Have a hiring manager talk with you, specifically, about an opening that they want you, specifically, to fill.

How do you get into that position, should you constantly market yourself, or how did you do it ?

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#28

Negotiation is all about leverage. More often than not leverage is on the employer side. People look for a job because they most likely need one; unless they are in the fortunate position of working for fun and they don’t want to retire just yet. Negotiating means you should be ready to walk away: let’s be honest … how many with their first offer at their dream job (e.g: FAANG) would be ready to walk away from it? Un…

You have made alot of assumptions

First and foremost there are many times when leverage is not on the employers side, today it often is not as there are more open jobs than people to fill them. Given the current population decline this trend will likely continue unless we see massive reduction in the number of employers.

Then there is the assumption that the dream job is working at a FAANG company. Many people, myself included, avoid large companies like the plague. Even if a large public company wanted to pay me 2x what I make now I would infact turn that down.

Finally there are multiple studies that show there is a wage curve which in today's dollars any salary above around 80-90K (average US COL, Adjust where needed for high COL regions) there is a reduction in how much the base salary factors into job choice. Instead other things start to play larger factors in the choice to accept an offer.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. So if you don't go up in salary, you get out. Generally you start to plan your exit with that salary increase in mine. Every recruiter wants to kno…

> The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. Personally, I don't think this is true as companies or people think it is.

Skills+personality fit (tech interview marathons, ad nauseum) into a finite number of companies, roles, teams, expected compensation. WFH isn't quite ubiquitous, so many individuals still have to worry about location, as well. The funnel begins to narrow as you get older and more skilled. The tyranny of the corporate pyramids.

Re: Salary Negotiation: Make More Money, Be More Valued

#30
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. So if you don't go up in salary, you get out. Generally you start to plan your exit with that salary increase in mine. Every recruiter wants to kno…

> The mantra to elaborate is "Up or Out" because at that salary level you have more options available to you as well. You actually know that you can, at any time, quit your job and find another one at a marginally lower or usually the same salary as you're currently making. Personally, I don't think this is true as companies or people think it is.

> at that salary level you have more options available to you as well

Maybe, maybe not. Most of the out people I know from I-banking, never once achieve the stature that they previously held at their last up or out position.

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