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BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

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Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#21

Post by jandrese »

rektide wrote: post #16
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

I don't think this is unique to BART. My local news regularly highlights what an S-hole our subway system is. It has become a good place for the homeless to spend their day and no one has found a satisfactory fix for now. Right now you only ride the Subway if you absolutely don't have an alternative. Low ridership feeds on itself since low ridership leads to even less ridership and the accompanied decrease in the bud…

DC areas metro is facing a good 3/4 billion$ shortfall too, with federal support ending. We have the added shitshow of being a metro system spanning three different states. No one wants to pay, no one feels responsible; it's a mess.

Yeah, but they just jacked up the prices to encourage ridership. So it should be all good now.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#22

Post by ars »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #2

As the article states, the reason why BART is so heavily impacted is because it was mostly designed as commuter rail. BART is unique in that historically it paid most of its costs in farebox revenue. While peak-hour (morning and evening commute) ridership is catching up again (BART publishes numbers so you can check the work here), usage outside of peak hours is at an all-time low because of the increase of WFH jobs.…

> BART along the same alignment still moves 2x more people than the Bay Bridge does though, which is something to remember as non-users of BART clamor for its defunding.

How much does BART cost per year (or per decade) vs the Bay Bridge?

A huge advantage of roads vs public transit is you don't need staff. (Maintenence is needed on both, but even then I suspect roads are cheaper to maintain.)

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#23

Post by vanattab »

rektide wrote: post #16
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

I don't think this is unique to BART. My local news regularly highlights what an S-hole our subway system is. It has become a good place for the homeless to spend their day and no one has found a satisfactory fix for now. Right now you only ride the Subway if you absolutely don't have an alternative. Low ridership feeds on itself since low ridership leads to even less ridership and the accompanied decrease in the bud…

DC areas metro is facing a good 3/4 billion$ shortfall too, with federal support ending. We have the added shitshow of being a metro system spanning three different states. No one wants to pay, no one feels responsible; it's a mess.

Lol I see what u did there! Nice try, but the metro does not span 3 states. It spans 2 states and a federal territory. Nice try though.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#24

Post by jb12 »

jandrese wrote: post #19
bquinlan wrote: post #10

In my social circle there is a perception that the BART is increasingly unsafe and some people who previously used the BART to commute from East Bay to SF are now driving. Their perception seems to be born out by the data: From the Bay Area Rapid Transit Police Department [1] Aggravated Assault (2019): 112 Aggravated Assault (2022): 114 Relative increase (2019 -> 2022) adjusted for ridership: 114/112/0.3 = 3.39x [1]…

Is it possible that the amount of assault is relatively unrelated to total ridership? Like the number of criminal assholes in the community is about the same regardless of how many people use mass transit?

The point is that with a constant amount of assaults, and fewer potential victims, you are more likely to be a victim.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#25

Post by ars »

jandrese wrote: post #21
rektide wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DC areas metro is facing a good 3/4 billion$ shortfall too, with federal support ending. We have the added shitshow of being a metro system spanning three different states. No one wants to pay, no one feels responsible; it's a mess.

Yeah, but they just jacked up the prices to encourage ridership. So it should be all good now.

I rode the DC metro with family because I was warned about parking and traffic in DC.

BIG MISTAKE! On the second day I took a car, and it took 1/3 the time, and 1/10 the cost EVEN with searching and paying for parking.

Public transit should be free.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#26

Post by killjoywashere »

rektide wrote: post #16
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #3

I don't think this is unique to BART. My local news regularly highlights what an S-hole our subway system is. It has become a good place for the homeless to spend their day and no one has found a satisfactory fix for now. Right now you only ride the Subway if you absolutely don't have an alternative. Low ridership feeds on itself since low ridership leads to even less ridership and the accompanied decrease in the bud…

DC areas metro is facing a good 3/4 billion$ shortfall too, with federal support ending. We have the added shitshow of being a metro system spanning three different states. No one wants to pay, no one feels responsible; it's a mess.

I'm in DC today, come here regularly for business but live in the bay area, moved into bay area in August 2020. Can't imagine DC without the metro and heard just today they actually fixed the new cars during the pandemic, so net win here. Even before the pandemic the BART helped convince me to not live in the City.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#27

Post by peyton »

danhak wrote: post #20
Karrot_Kream wrote: post #2

As the article states, the reason why BART is so heavily impacted is because it was mostly designed as commuter rail. BART is unique in that historically it paid most of its costs in farebox revenue. While peak-hour (morning and evening commute) ridership is catching up again (BART publishes numbers so you can check the work here), usage outside of peak hours is at an all-time low because of the increase of WFH jobs.…

I’m a little confused by the reasoning here. You state that peak (commute) traffic is recovering but off-peak is still low, due to WFH? Wouldn’t WFH be impacting peak hours, with off-peak at all-time-low due to other things like leisure travel?

Also if the decline is all WFH, why have private vehicle miles traveled recovered to pre-pandemic levels?

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#28

Post by ramesh31 »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #2

As the article states, the reason why BART is so heavily impacted is because it was mostly designed as commuter rail. BART is unique in that historically it paid most of its costs in farebox revenue. While peak-hour (morning and evening commute) ridership is catching up again (BART publishes numbers so you can check the work here), usage outside of peak hours is at an all-time low because of the increase of WFH jobs.…

>BART is unique in that historically it paid most of its costs in farebox revenue.

Because it's expensive as hell, and the only sane option for commuting into the city during rush hour. A $10 round trip to go 5 miles from the east bay to downtown is absolutely crazy. Easily double the price of any other metro in the US.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#29

Post by AlotOfReading »

loaph wrote: post #6
gautamcgoel wrote: post #5

I live in Oakland and am frightened of taking BART after hearing many horror stories from friends. If I, a healthy man in his 20s, am afraid to take BART, imagine how intimidating it must be for women and the elderly.

I road BART on Tuesday and it wasn't scary. You repeating what you heard might just create an echo chamber that amplifies something that isn't true and gets other people to believe it.

Counter anecdata, I rode Bart last night from 16th mission at ~9PM. First I waited 45mins for a train, then all the available seats on that car were covered in piles of trash, and panhandlers hassled the elderly couple next to me.

I think BART is generally tolerable, but you're dismissing how obviously fucking terrible the BART experience can be and regularly is. A lot of people aren't willing to deal with that roulette, nor should they have to. Other transit systems aren't this bad.

Re: BART ridership is still down nearly 70% from pre-Covid levels

#30

Post by Reason077 »

London Underground has reached over 90% of pre-pandemic passenger numbers as of April 2023 [1], and Transport for London expects to achieve an operating surplus in 2023-24.

Notably, while peak-time commuter travel is still down on pre-pandemic levels, weekend passenger numbers on some routes has hit new all-time records.

[1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65821633

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