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Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#21

Post by powersnail »

chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

I have a few Anker cables that seem to be fairly durable. The C2Cs and C2lightnings have lasted for years at this point. Whatever come with the Pixel phones are also okay. My A2Cs are all fairly old, too, mostly brand-less, but still working.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#22

Post by hu3 »

My current client-issued contracting laptop has a 230W power adapter. Runs cool and silent'ish during Laravel/TypeScript webdev. JetBrains IDE barely manages to spin the fans a bit noticeable before it goes back to smooth sailing. So a 180W adapter no longer causes me to react much.

But I bet it would run pretty hot and loud if I toyed around with stable diffusion and a bunch more containers.

And then there are aboslute units like the Razor Blade 18 with 330W power adapter: https://www.razer.com/gaming-laptops/razer-blade-18 (13th gen i9 with RTX 4090)

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#23

Post by eitally »

chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

I just bought a high end Anker multi-port USB/PD brick and a collection of Nomad USB cables (C-C, A-C, and one that's C-C but includes C-A adaptors for both ends). To be fair, the only places I've consistently had issues with cables are the [shared] kitchen charging station the whole family uses every day (laptop, ipad, phone, watch, kindle) and in the car for Android Auto & Car Play. I've never had a cable fail on my desk. The new stuff I bought is to upgrade the brick in the kitchen with higher power delivery on multiple ports, and to replace a failing cable in my car. As a guy using a 16" MacBook Pro, having a multi-port adaptor that can adequately charge the laptop while also charging a phone is helpful.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#24

Post by VTimofeenko »

minhazm wrote: post #15
chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

I have several Anker 100 watt USB C cables scattered throughout my house and they've all lasted a over a year now with no signs of any issues. Apple's cables work fine too but they of course eventually get worn down at the ends and eventually need to be replaced. I also tried Aukey, but their cables stopped working for me after a month or two. I had them replaced under warranty twice and all three times it stopped wo…

IME Anker cables didn't work that well with frame.work throwing it into a power negotiation(?) loop. Basically udev was eating 100% of a cpu switching to and from battery if it were to discharge below 80%.

Apple macbook air cables have been rock solid though.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#25

Post by maxsilver »

mcpackieh wrote: post #5

Virtually all of the electrical energy put into a computer is turned into heat, right? Some of it comes out as visible light from the screen and some tiny portion of it is.. converted into information I guess? But generally a 180W computer is putting out very nearly 180W of thermal energy, as I understand it. My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well…

180W isn't as bad as it seems. I have an ASUS Zephyrus 14, which ships with a 180W charger (and has a full Ryzen 9 5900HS + GeForce RTX 3060, 40GB of RAM) -- under normal use, it doesn't get particularly hot at all. (it never draws more than ~60ish watts)

If you stress-test everything to the max (Turbo Mode CPU+GPU, max power draw, while playing a game at 120fps) then yes, you can draw 150+ watts and it's too hot to safely have on your lap. But you can set it on a table and still use it comfortably. (The keyboard/trackpad never gets hot)

Notably, being able to choose which mode you want anytime is super useful. (I can turn this into a respectable gaming rig at a moment's notice, and it weighs less than a 16' MacBook Pro. I can also flip a switch and it's basically an ultrabook with 7 hours of battery life and silent fans -- or I can run it all day off a tiny 65watt USB-C charger in the office in that mode)

Having a high-watt charger means you have the option to use that electricity, not that you are required to do so.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#26

Post by mcpackieh »

chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

Braided USB cables are robust in my experience, you might try those. With respect to DC barrel jacks, it's a mixed bag. My old ASUS Eeepc had the barrel jack get loose and make poor connections after about a year or two and I've heard others say they had the same sort of problem. On the other hand I've never seen nor heard of a thinkpad's DC barrel jack failing in any way. Those have a tight snap fit even after 15+ years of rough use.

I hate to blame the user, but if all cables are failing then maybe you're being too rough with them? I hate to suggest that because I've had cables fail despite receiving no abuse; Apple's old magsafe cables were notorious for this and the fanboys even more notorious for always blaming the user. It's possible you've had bad luck with cables and weren't mistreating any of them. It has been my experience that some cables deteriorate despite not being abused, but other cables put up with a lot of abuse.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#27

Post by 111111IIIIIII »

chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

Buy name brand cables from places like Cablematters, Belkin, Monoprice, Anker, Club3D, etc.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#28

Post by vorpalhex »

mcpackieh wrote: post #7
josephcsible wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My point is that laptops with 90W adapters can get too hot to comfortably touch, I think at 180W you're well past the point where actually using it on your lap is advisable. You're mixing up thermal energy and temperature. Consider that you can easily burn yourself on a 60W soldering iron, but it'd be quite hard to do so on a 1500W oil-filled space heater.

You could keep temperature down with fans, but my 90W thinkpad has fans so strong it sounds (and feels) like a hair drier and still runs very hot. I'm having a hard time imagining a 180W laptop that isn't hotter than hell.

You have a gap in your understanding of the physics here. Even a 400W laptop can be cool to the touch.

A laptop is hot to the touch because it has hot components (eg a processor running at full throttle) and fails to dissipate that heat correctly.

That is mostly divorced from it's power consumption.

If you ran a large robotic arm off your laptop, you'd be using a lot of watts but making only a bit of heat.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#29

Post by mcpackieh »

jolux wrote: post #14
chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

> Does anyone make cables that don’t fall apart ridiculously quickly, failing at the cable/plug junction? I always hear that Apple cables are prone to falling apart but I’ve had USB-C chargers for my laptop since 2017, carried them around everywhere, didn’t baby them, and they’re mostly fine. They’re kinda yellow and brown now instead of white but that’s the worst of it. Genuinely not sure if I’m doing something diff…

At least some USB-C cables aren't very good. The USB-C charging cable I got with my Dell laptop failed due to inadequate strain relief (rubber sheath failed right where it met the plug.)

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive – 180W Power Adapter

#30

Post by Retric »

jolux wrote: post #14
chrismorgan wrote: post #12

> Beyond reducing environmental impact through efficiency and recycled materials, we’ve enabled longevity by making both the 2m USB-C and 1m AC cables removable, letting you swap a cable if your cat chews through it. It baffled me when I first actually examined a laptop that used USB-C natively to discover that its power adapter didn’t use a removable USB-C cable. I’d just assumed implicitly that they would, because…

> Does anyone make cables that don’t fall apart ridiculously quickly, failing at the cable/plug junction? I always hear that Apple cables are prone to falling apart but I’ve had USB-C chargers for my laptop since 2017, carried them around everywhere, didn’t baby them, and they’re mostly fine. They’re kinda yellow and brown now instead of white but that’s the worst of it. Genuinely not sure if I’m doing something diff…

It’s largely based on usage and manufacturer. I have 5 year old iPhone/lightning cables, but I also had a cheap cable die in the first week.

USB-C has similar ranges of build quality, but you also want to avoid picking your phone up by the cable etc.

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