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French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

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Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#21

Post by midoridensha »

sofixa wrote: post #15
midoridensha wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting; it looks like these people went to Syria to fight ISIS, and got this ill treatment when they returned. Why does it seem like the French government is always supporting the worst actors in any conflict? ISIS is (was) so evil and barbaric, they make Putin seem like a great guy. Why would volunteering to fight them ever be seen in a bad light?

Or course the French government doesn't support ISIS, they also monitored everyone who fought for them. The problem is that these people are (supposedly) radicalised, and with active military experience (and probable related PTSD), not who they fought against.

[flagged]

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#22

Post by realusername »

midoridensha wrote: post #13
AmericanChopper wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The monopoly on violence is the central component of the power of the state. This case undermines that power as much as violence used in self defence does, and is being prosecuted as passionately as self defence killings often are.

Well this isn't the first time in recent history the French government was a supporter of genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_the_Rwandan_genocid...

France did not support the genocide, they just didn't do much at all apart from accepting refugies, also confirmed by more recent declassified papers.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#24

Post by ohgodplsno »

nestorD wrote: post #6

The key is that, while there is suspicion (the people arrested have a far left ideology, have been to Syria to fight against the Islamic state, own weapons and encrypt all of their communications), there is no crime nor proof of an intent to commit a crime . These people have been sent to prison because they are suspicious, not because of an action they have done (something made possible as a special case of an older…

Slippery slope?

No, no, we're already down the slope and going fast, we are now at "dissolve informal ecologist organizations and raid their homes and families with antiterrorist groups and gear for the crimes of blocking some construction", "get friendly with neonazi groups and let them parade in Paris, let them attack prides and leftist bars".

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#25

Post by franciscop »

sofixa wrote: post #17

As others have mentioned, context matters a lot. The arrested group came back from Syria (where they fought alongside YPG against ISIS) radicalised, and were monitored ever since then. Their alleged crime isn't using Signal, it's just that a French anti-terrorism law allows to be arrested for "organisation with the intent to commit terrorist acts", which the DGSI(internal intelligence services) claims a radicalised g…

It should be very clear IMHO; they have nothing, if they caught the group with "a bunch of hunting weapons and ammunition" then they can arrest them for that and that'd be a lot more serious ground for the argument of "intent to commit terrorist acts".

Since it seems they don't have anything, they are criminalizing normal tools and dev tools because your average reader/citizen doesn't know the difference between a hacker and a cracker, let alone the right of privacy vs conspiring. The only nice thing IMHO is that everyone uses Whatsapp and no one considers it "criminal", so by bundling Signal etc together with Whatsapp they are making themselves look like they are exaggerating for the average person.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#26

Post by ohgodplsno »

midoridensha wrote: post #5
xcombelle wrote: post #2

this article miss a whole part of the story. among other things, these person came back from a warzone. looks at https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_du_8_décembre_2020

Very interesting; it looks like these people went to Syria to fight ISIS, and got this ill treatment when they returned. Why does it seem like the French government is always supporting the worst actors in any conflict? ISIS is (was) so evil and barbaric, they make Putin seem like a great guy. Why would volunteering to fight them ever be seen in a bad light?

>Why would volunteering to fight them ever be seen in a bad light?

In part, because the YPG is seen by the french state as a terrorist group, for various political reasons, and also because having leftists trained in handling weapons is seemingly more terrifying to the government than having neonazis trained in handling weapons. Make of that what you will.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#27

Post by franciscop »

midoridensha wrote: post #21
sofixa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or course the French government doesn't support ISIS, they also monitored everyone who fought for them. The problem is that these people are (supposedly) radicalised, and with active military experience (and probable related PTSD), not who they fought against.

[flagged]

In "pacific" Europe (specially in those countries where conscription is not mandatory) voluntarily taking weapons and going to a different country to kill people, no matter the reason, IS definitely considered radicalized, in the sense that it's very, very rare and "anti-social" behavior.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#28

Post by vxNsr »

midoridensha wrote: post #21
sofixa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or course the French government doesn't support ISIS, they also monitored everyone who fought for them. The problem is that these people are (supposedly) radicalised, and with active military experience (and probable related PTSD), not who they fought against.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#29

Post by ohgodplsno »

sofixa wrote: post #19
AmericanChopper wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The monopoly on violence is the central component of the power of the state. This case undermines that power as much as violence used in self defence does, and is being prosecuted as passionately as self defence killings often are.

> and is being prosecuted as passionately as self defence killings often are. Citation needed of self-defence killings im France being prosecuted passionately and unfairly.

https://www.dalloz-actualite.fr/interview/vanessa-codaccioni...

90% of self defense cases end in the tribunal, meaning that the judges saw it as not-self-defense. The biggest factor in all this is proportionality: if you killed someone in self defense but were not yourself having your life threatened, you will go to court.

Re: French govt. says users of uBlock Origin, Signal etc. are potential terrorists

#30

Post by BiteCode_dev »

derelicta wrote: post #20
nestorD wrote: post #6

The key is that, while there is suspicion (the people arrested have a far left ideology, have been to Syria to fight against the Islamic state, own weapons and encrypt all of their communications), there is no crime nor proof of an intent to commit a crime . These people have been sent to prison because they are suspicious, not because of an action they have done (something made possible as a special case of an older…

It's understandable yet sad that actively fighting against reactionnary movements puts you on a watchlist. Freedom fighters being equated to terrorists once again...

I use linux, signal and ublock, I listen to political debates, and I'm seldom a freedom fighter.

They are basically saying "if you close the door of the toilets when you poop, you are suspicious".

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