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Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

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Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#21

Post by shortrounddev2 »

lockhouse wrote: post #20
ragequittah wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lockdown were to slow the curve, not prevent people getting covid. No health official in their right mind ever thought you could stop this thing after a certain threshold, we generally had lockdowns when our hospitals were extremely close to collapse. At least where I am.

We remember the "2 weeks" to slow the curve, but the messaging changed after 2 weeks. Schools stayed locked down long after there was any credible risk of hospitals collapsing.

Because people didn't do what they were told to do, and the government screwed it all up. Some state governors did nothing.

The US's categorical inability to implement the basic functions of a state are not an indictment of those functions

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#22

Post by shortrounddev2 »

lockhouse wrote: post #12
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>largely pointless lockdown I think you forgot about the whole "pandemic" thing that happened

There is a lot of evidence that the lockdowns harmed the education of a generation of children, did massive damage to the economy, permanently shuttered thousands of small businesses, and we all still got COVID. With the benefit of hindsight, it’s really hard to argue that lockdowns were the right call.

I put very little faith in the US public school system pre-pandemic, I really don't think the lost schooling is that important in the long run.

> With the benefit of hindsight, it’s really hard to argue that lockdowns were the right call.

With the benefit of hindsight, the easier judgment to make is that the US has become an anti-social, low-trust society made up of people who are incapable of putting the needs of others ahead of their own interests. If you live in the US, you were never truly under "lockdown".

We also have plenty of evidence from the Spanish Flu pandemic which supports pre-emptive school closures (rather than reactive school closures) as an effective means of slowing spread

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#23

Post by lockhouse »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #21
lockhouse wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We remember the "2 weeks" to slow the curve, but the messaging changed after 2 weeks. Schools stayed locked down long after there was any credible risk of hospitals collapsing.

Because people didn't do what they were told to do, and the government screwed it all up. Some state governors did nothing. The US's categorical inability to implement the basic functions of a state are not an indictment of those functions

None of this changes the fact that in hindsight the lockdowns were extremely costly in several ways and proved to be mostly ineffective.

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#24

Post by lockhouse »

rngname22 wrote: post #14
lockhouse wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example of parents interfering in teachers ability to do their jobs?

I've read countless, I started spending some time on the /r/nursing and /r/teachers subreddits during the pandemic to understand some of how it was affecting them and you learn quickly that parents often interfere in their children's learning, whether it be preventing punishments, doing their child's homework for them, not feeding them, threatening school districts with lawsuits such that school principals and admini…

Wow, that is wild. Thank you.

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#25

Post by shortrounddev2 »

lockhouse wrote: post #23
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people didn't do what they were told to do, and the government screwed it all up. Some state governors did nothing. The US's categorical inability to implement the basic functions of a state are not an indictment of those functions

None of this changes the fact that in hindsight the lockdowns were extremely costly in several ways and proved to be mostly ineffective.

You know what's more costly? Dying.

> mostly ineffective

The United States government is mostly ineffective. Again, America's inability to do most functions of government correctly is not an indictment of those functions.

Also, it should be said, the US's prolonged mishandling of the Coronavirus pandemic had lasting economic impacts because people willingly chose to stay home to avoid getting sick, not just because occupancy limits were lowered for many businesses (what you mistakenly call a "lockdown"). Had the US enforced coronavirus restrictions better and if Americans didn't selfishly refuse to follow the rules, the economy would have taken far less damage than we chose to inflict upon ourselves.

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#26

Post by lockhouse »

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #25
lockhouse wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this changes the fact that in hindsight the lockdowns were extremely costly in several ways and proved to be mostly ineffective.

You know what's more costly? Dying. > mostly ineffective The United States government is mostly ineffective. Again, America's inability to do most functions of government correctly is not an indictment of those functions. Also, it should be said, the US's prolonged mishandling of the Coronavirus pandemic had lasting economic impacts because people willingly chose to stay home to avoid getting sick, not just because o…

Even China's extremely draconian zero-COVID policy lockdowns, with martial law and doors welded shut ultimately achieved very little. When I say we all got COVID anyway, I mean pretty much everyone in the entire world did.

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#27

Post by shortrounddev2 »

lockhouse wrote: post #26
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's more costly? Dying. > mostly ineffective The United States government is mostly ineffective. Again, America's inability to do most functions of government correctly is not an indictment of those functions. Also, it should be said, the US's prolonged mishandling of the Coronavirus pandemic had lasting economic impacts because people willingly chose to stay home to avoid getting sick, not just because o…

Even China's extremely draconian zero-COVID policy lockdowns, with martial law and doors welded shut ultimately achieved very little. When I say we all got COVID anyway, I mean pretty much everyone in the entire world did.

The goal in the west was never to eliminate covid, it was to slow the spread of it. School closures are an effective means of doing so (if done pre-emptively) because schools are one of a few places where an entire towns social network crosses paths at the same time.

We have known this for over 100 years, since the Spanish flu pandemic. Denying this is simply anti-scientific and motivated by your political beliefs

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#28

Post by nunez »

lockhouse wrote: post #8
rngname22 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disempower the administrators and parents that won't let teachers do their jobs. Vote for school district officials and attend meetings and question why they won't let teachers dictate policy as opposed to administrators, standards-makers, or boards that don't have teaching experience or no longer teach.

Do you have an example of parents interfering in teachers ability to do their jobs?

I have none...well aside from the law that passed in Florida and Texas earlier this year that allows parents to see _and reject_ lesson plans if they don't like them.

My educator wife, however? There aren't enough minutes in the day to enumerate the inane BS she's put up with from students parents!

Re: Middle schoolers' reading and math scores plummet

#29

Post by nunez »

damnesian wrote: post #7
alach11 wrote: post #2

This is devastating. Whatever you think about covid lockdowns and remote education, it's clear that something drastic has happened. The question is... is there anything we can do to fix it? I'd hate to be a high school teacher right now. Also, I was surprised and disappointed by the lack of graphs in the article. The actual report has some illustrative ones: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/highlights/ltt/2023/

Having kids and knowing parents of younger kids, I have thought about it and do have an idea. If a kid is doing great, their path remains the same. If they are lagging behind: make one monolithic math course that everyone enrolls in. Institute mentoring. The older kids help the younger. Remove any negative consequences of just trying (that is to say no one will fail)- use only positive incentives. Maybe a scholarship…

> If they are lagging behind: make one monolithic math course that everyone enrolls in. Institute mentoring. The older kids help the younger. Remove any negative consequences of just trying (that is to say no one will fail)- use only positive incentives. Maybe a scholarship fund for kids who help others.

This is called an "integrated classroom" which is part of the "differentiated learning" pedagogy [1].

It has been around for a very long time.

Many schools have incorporated it into their curricula.

It is extremely difficult to build a successfully integrated classroom. The kids who need more help will slow down the kids who need less, which can decrease performance in both groups.

Educators with integrated classrooms need to construct several variations of a single lesson plan to mitigate this.

Given that education is amongst the lowest-paying professions in the US (less well-paying than restaurant work, after tips!), and given that many schools have been stripped of funding and other resources that can help alleviate this potential burden, I hope you can see why implementing this suggestion is easier said than done.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differentiated_instruction

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