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Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

newsingermany.com

21–30 of 194 posts

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#21

It's funny to think that the fantasy/speculative fiction trope of "precursor civilization that has advanced tech" was probably grounded in the historical memory of people happening upon ruins, weapons and artifacts of extraordinary craftsmanship.

Such myths are likely based on classical Rome rather than bronze age discoveries.

For several centuries after the Western empire fell apart, Europeans lacked the capability to build settlements or structures anywhere close to the size typical of classical Roman civilization. Populations were depressed by pestilence, social order had declined, and most Europeans were within a short distance from a former Roman settlement of a size larger than they'd ever seen populated in their lives. The Eastern empire was a little different, but Western Europe was pretty much fubar in the early middle ages.

Although technology steadily progressed throughout the middle ages, it took centuries for population and social organization to return to anywhere near classical levels. If you lived during the early middle age, it was an unmistakable fact that a great "precursor civilization" capable of wonders far beyond what your own civilization was capable of had lived and fallen long before you were born. With colossal roman ruins scattered across Europe, there was no need to look to the bronze age for a fallen civilization.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#22

It's funny to think that the fantasy/speculative fiction trope of "precursor civilization that has advanced tech" was probably grounded in the historical memory of people happening upon ruins, weapons and artifacts of extraordinary craftsmanship.

Almost everywhere on earth, there have been many regional collapses in different times. This is enough for a corpus of stories about mythical, great past to be created, survive through the highwater mark of the next cycle of civilization (which was usually higher than the previous great past), and provide context during the next collapse and it's aftermath.

When Roman power in the West collapsed, and, for example, the remaining population of Arles retreated into the amphitheater of their previously much greater and more prosperous city, building a fortification in the middle and from the ruins of what used to be before, there were almost certainly people among them who could recite Hesiod. I just for some reason find this so trippy.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#23
post #3

What kind of news site is this? Seems fake. Not reported anywhere else.

> Alle Artikel sind aus der Originalquelle übersetzt. Wir betreiben einen Übersetzungsdienst, um Englischsprachigen in Deutschland zu helfen, zu verstehen, was in ganz Deutschland passiert. All articles are translated from the original source. We run a translation service to help English speakers in Germany understand what's happening across Germany. But yeah, it has strong freebooting energy.

>But yeah, it has strong freebooting energy.

The FAZ and Zeit articles are just copy pasted from the dpa, which is why they are identical. I am sure they payed for them, but I can't say I am particularly sorry for them.

Welt was the one article I saw which included some more info and a few more pictures.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#24

What stands out to me is the pommel with the large handhold. That makes me think that it's a slashing sword, not a stabbing one. Then there's the fact that it's all metal, unlike how most ancient and medieval swords which were made with an handle of organic material around the tang of the blade. Probably not intended (ever) for use in fighting? Since it doesn't have a replacable handle.

> "What stands out to me is the pommel with the large handhold. That makes me think that it's a slashing sword, not a stabbing one."

it looks like the pommel of a rondel dagger which is as stabby as it gets

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#25

What stands out to me is the pommel with the large handhold. That makes me think that it's a slashing sword, not a stabbing one. Then there's the fact that it's all metal, unlike how most ancient and medieval swords which were made with an handle of organic material around the tang of the blade. Probably not intended (ever) for use in fighting? Since it doesn't have a replacable handle.

If the handle is metal, why would it ever need to be replaced? It's not going to rot, and it's not going to break.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is! Why is the hilt at the end instead of the end of the blade?

With the caveat that I'm not an expert, that's the pommel (hilt is the entire handle) and it is at the bottom to prevent the sword from slipping out of your hand. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilt

Heh, you're right on both counts; thanks! Looks like the pommel at the end acts as a counterweight for heavy swords.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#27

What stands out to me is the pommel with the large handhold. That makes me think that it's a slashing sword, not a stabbing one. Then there's the fact that it's all metal, unlike how most ancient and medieval swords which were made with an handle of organic material around the tang of the blade. Probably not intended (ever) for use in fighting? Since it doesn't have a replacable handle.

Generally speaking, shorter swords from that period (as the current one), which are more like large daggers, were typically cast in one piece with the handhold. For larger swords, we often find some with separately attached handles, too.

Here you can see a selection of Danish swords of both types alongside each other from the same period: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Images-of-Danish-swords-...

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#28

What stands out to me is the pommel with the large handhold. That makes me think that it's a slashing sword, not a stabbing one. Then there's the fact that it's all metal, unlike how most ancient and medieval swords which were made with an handle of organic material around the tang of the blade. Probably not intended (ever) for use in fighting? Since it doesn't have a replacable handle.

The handle seems to be a separate piece of metal from the blade, and it appears to have been riveted to the blade (with two pairs of lateral rivets), so it might have been replaceable, even if there should have been little need to replace a bronze handle.

The blade seems thick, so even with a bronze handle the sword might have been balanced well enough to be usable.

Just from the pictures it cannot be guessed whether the sword was too heavy to be easily handled by a normal human.

Re: Archaeologists find 3000-year-old sword, exceptionally well preserved

#30
post #13

More nice pictures here, very metal: https://www.welt.de/geschichte/article245860994/Archaeologie...

Wow! That really does look like it's in good shape. I understand it's because bronze doesn't oxidize as readily but it's not what I picture when someone says 3000 year old sword.
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