What motorcycles teach about maintenance • Hacker News Board

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#21

Post by salonium_ » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:09 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #4

>One time, when a customer asked him to help revive a beloved 1983 Honda Magma V45 that hadn’t been driven for two years, Crawford responded harshly: “Assuming it’s got all the usual problems from sitting, you’re looking at a thousand dollars to get it back on the road. First, it is the Honda Magna . Second, this mechanic took him to the cleaners. The Magna isn't nearly as complex as a Goldwing. $1000 for cleaning th…

The article is on a collaborative online platform, so you can add comments or suggestions for corrections on the website :) https://books.worksinprogress.co/book/maintenance-of-everyth...

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#22

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:11 PM UTC

marssaxman wrote: post #11

kube-system wrote: post #5

What Motorcycles Teach About Maintenance: fuel injection is great.

...and shaft drives are the way to ride.

Or at least insist on a centerstand which so many modern bikes unfortunately can't fit because of their complex exhaust configurations.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#23

Post by pibechorro » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:12 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #5

What Motorcycles Teach About Maintenance: fuel injection is great.

Carbs are also great. My xr650r can sit in a shed for 300 years and if it was clean when stored will start up in 2 kicks or at worst in 15min after opening the bowl with one screwdriver and cleaning the jets.

There is no fuel pump to break (or weight the bike down), I could run the carb with a soda bottle if I had to. There are no complex computers to break and brick the bike.

Beyond the reliability, the real value of the carbs is the FEEL. This bike is analog, the rumbling sounds, the brilliant popping and gurgle on deceleration. Its a motorcycle, mechanical gear changes, cable operated throttle, controlled explosions.

We loose something with tft displays, riding modes, non analog throttles, and every granny safety algorithm in between our brains and the rear tire.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#24

Post by Kapura » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

I've been watching mechanic channels on YouTube recently when I need some background noise, and It's very interesting to see them do their once overs on the car, and hear their initial theories get confirmed or disconfirmed as they move through the vehicle. You can feel their experience for the sorts of issues that are likely or unlikely, and the focus on root cause (whether a botched repair job or something broken from the factory) is very... motivational? Difficult to describe, but it's uplifting.

One channel is mostly teardowns of different busted car engines, and as those are essentially all postmortem operations, they play out like murder mysteries as different parts of the engine face varying degrees of damage from whatever went wrong (oil starvation/clogging typically, sometimes hydrolock or more exotic combustion failures). Apart from absorbing some small amount of understanding of how internal combustion engines work, the need for regular oil changes and inspections has been impressed on me about 20x.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#25

Post by ljm » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

luckystarr wrote: post #6

I've read ZATAOMM some time ago and remember it highlighting my bias in perception. Mostly you look at things for what "they are" or "how they look" but not "how they work" or "their potential uses". I found that quite insightful and thought it was applicable in my work as well. I can't tell if it actually was though. :)

When I finished reading this book I felt like Johnny Truant ruminating on a non-Euclidean house.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#26

Post by KineticLensman » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:20 PM UTC

jgust wrote: post #9

luckystarr wrote: post #6

I've read ZATAOMM some time ago and remember it highlighting my bias in perception. Mostly you look at things for what "they are" or "how they look" but not "how they work" or "their potential uses". I found that quite insightful and thought it was applicable in my work as well. I can't tell if it actually was though. :)

> Mostly you look at things for what "they are" or "how they look" but not "how they work" or "their potential uses" Say more. I feel I'm the exact opposite if I understand you correctly.

The actual quote, from the OP, is "Pirsig proposes that to become expert at keeping anything in good repair, you need to understand it in two ways—how it works and how it’s made"

This seems intuitively sensible for mechanical / physical objects, although I'm not sure how well it applies where the broken thing is software, with deep complexity and multiple layers of abstraction.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#27

Post by ethanbond » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:21 PM UTC

jgust wrote: post #9

luckystarr wrote: post #6

I've read ZATAOMM some time ago and remember it highlighting my bias in perception. Mostly you look at things for what "they are" or "how they look" but not "how they work" or "their potential uses". I found that quite insightful and thought it was applicable in my work as well. I can't tell if it actually was though. :)

> Mostly you look at things for what "they are" or "how they look" but not "how they work" or "their potential uses" Say more. I feel I'm the exact opposite if I understand you correctly.

I think the more macro point is that these are all different, equally valid, and differentially useful ways to slice the world. It's good to have a lot of different ways to slice the universe and to use them consciously and explicitly for what they're each good at.

I.e. ontologies exist in consciousnesses, not in the universe, and they're really powerful tools

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#28

Post by dclowd9901 » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

Kapura wrote: post #24

I've been watching mechanic channels on YouTube recently when I need some background noise, and It's very interesting to see them do their once overs on the car, and hear their initial theories get confirmed or disconfirmed as they move through the vehicle. You can feel their experience for the sorts of issues that are likely or unlikely, and the focus on root cause (whether a botched repair job or something broken f…

If you enjoy these, I highly recommend the show Wheeler Dealers, especially the seasons where Ant Anstead and Mark Priestly are acting as shop mechanics. Their systematic approach to diagnosis and clever problem solving are incredibly cathartic. And they’re also very good at what they do.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#29

Post by dclowd9901 » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:27 PM UTC

raintrees wrote: post #18

I use metaphors like this when talking about programming: Any system of systems complex enough can easily be anthropomorphized... But they both come back to basics: What is the overall model of how it should work? What are the symptoms? What do we know about the possible underlying causes of those symptoms? How do we design a test to see if the hypothesis is right? When we run the test, do we get confirmation, denial…

The biggest part for me is the “reducing complexity” part. What are the intended bounds of operation for this piece of the system. What upstream effects can hit it or what downstream effects can it create.

A lot of analogies here with fuel systems in cars. When a car isn’t “running right” we generally start with the basics: is it getting air, fuel and spark, and go from there.

Re: What motorcycles teach about maintenance

#30

Post by artisanspam » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 3:28 PM UTC

I’m curious to hear the perspective of someone who is both into motorcycles and bicycles, as I’ve only ridden on a motorcycle a handful of times, while I cycle nearly daily.

Bicycle maintenance can be annoying, but it doesn’t seem nearly as time-intensive as motorcycle maintenance. On the other hand, the process of cycling feels better to me compared to being on a motor bike. It’s quieter, slower, and great exercise. I can talk with others. I feel as though I can get into a state of peace on lower effort rides, as well as a state of flow while racing.