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Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

extremetech.com

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Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#21

Post by adam-a »

codeka wrote: post #5

> their infrastructures have been reduced to that of a dumb pipe This is a bad thing how? As far as I can see, carriers have far too much control over the devices that are used on their networks. I can't imagine consumers opting for devices where carriers have EVEN GREATER control! It's consumers who buy the device, not carriers.

I'm frequently surprised by how much power the US carriers seem to have. Here in the UK they are mostly reduced to dumb pipes. There are (almost) no operator exclusive phones, except for the cheapo own-brand ones, which few people would choose a network for. On top of that any phone you buy can be legally unlocked and switched to any other network.

It seems like a much better position as a consumer to be able to pick an operator based mainly on the line-rental charges and included data, minutes, etc.

I don't know if this is a consequence of laws around unlocking phones or simply because the operators in the UK pretty much match each other in coverage. Most built up areas have even coverage from them all so there is little to lock a buyer into one network or another.

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#22

Post by daeken »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #8
av500 wrote: post #3

So Mozilla's fully open "Boot to Gecko" will power the carriers walled garden "fully closed" wet dreams?

There's a lot of inaccuracies in the article and that's one of them. There's also this: > Basically, B2G is just a cut-down version of Linux that automatically loads Firefox; basically, it’s like Chrome OS, but lower tech. How is it "lower tech"?

I should note that the browser on Boot2Gecko is really not related to Firefox on Linux at all, outside of using the same Gecko renderer underneath. B2G -- unlike Firefox -- doesn't require X, doesn't support extensions, and the browser chrome and all that is actually just a web app itself. So sure, it shares a renderer, but it's like saying that ChromeOS is powered by Safari.

(Disclaimer: I work for Mozilla on Boot2Gecko.)

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#23

Post by MatthewPhillips »

mrsebastian wrote: post #17
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's odd that you would equate different design goals with being "lower tech". By the same criteria Android is a lower tech than Chrome OS. Chrome OS was about building (a desktop computer) around the web as it exists today whereas B2G is about building (a mobile phone) around the web as it will (hopefully) exist in the future.

Hehe, well, I'm fairly sure that B2G and Chrome OS share more similarities than you grant them. They are both an attempt to build a cloud-based, web app-based thin client. The Chromebooks have 3G connectivity, don't forget -- and I'm sure there will be a B2G tablet, too (a Chrome OS tablet has been rumoured for a long time, as well). I don't think you can compare Android to B2G. But yeah, perhaps I should say 'simpli…

You seem to be implying that Chrome OS and B2G are really close, except B2G is missing a couple of things that Chrome has and is therefore "lower tech" or "simplified" but they simply have different design goals. Here's a list of APIs that B2G ships with that Chrome has no equivalent: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#24

Post by polshaw »

I really hope this survives, IMO we need a truly free mobile OS since meeGo died.

Concerns about 'browser as an OS', web apps only, and carrier control are way premature-- wait until we have seen the thing. For me, the fact mozilla are behind it trumps these concerns-- i know it will be truly open and consumer oriented.

..

If i had to guess, i would say that it would ship with carrier modification, but that this could be easily reverted with a simple, freely available 'add-on' (think ad-block-- no rooting, jailbreaking etc required), and that gecko would provide the default UI[1], with the option for native web apps to share the same front-end, and the linux backend would be available too.

..

1. Since the web is the only 100% cross-platform environment, and all smartphones are going to have a browser rendering engine loaded a lot of the time, this makes a lot of sense to me.

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#25

Post by arturadib »

slowpoke wrote: post #7

As much as I appreciate the efforts to build a successful, truly open mobile OS, the "browser as an OS" approach is an incredibly dumb idea. It's another step away from general purpose computing, and I don't like this direction one bit. Some people here on HN might not really want to hear this, but web apps aren't the future . You just fundamentally cannot put everything on the web. It works for incredibly simple thi…

is an incredibly dumb idea

Ouch.

It's another step away from general purpose computing

Not if the web platform itself is taking enormous strides towards general purpose computing, particularly in the mobile realm of B2G:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#New_APIs

In fact, in my opinion the web stack is becoming The Greatest Programming Toolkit Ever Built:

http://blog.arturadib.com/the-greatest-programming-toolkit-e...

It works for incredibly simple things. But that's it.

Depends on what you mean by "incredibly simple". If you look at the most popular apps besides games, it's hard to imagine why they can't be implemented in HTML5.

As for games, stay tuned. Folks are working hard on it:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Platform/AreWeFunYet

TL;DR: I disagree. The web stack is becoming the greatest general-purpose toolkit ever built. Already it's a great platform choice for building an entire "app" ecosystem on top of, and it's only getting better.

DISCLAIMER: Although I'm not in the B2G team, I work for Mozilla. However, the above is strictly my personal opinion.

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#26

Post by mrsebastian »

daeken wrote: post #22
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of inaccuracies in the article and that's one of them. There's also this: > Basically, B2G is just a cut-down version of Linux that automatically loads Firefox; basically, it’s like Chrome OS, but lower tech. How is it "lower tech"?

I should note that the browser on Boot2Gecko is really not related to Firefox on Linux at all, outside of using the same Gecko renderer underneath. B2G -- unlike Firefox -- doesn't require X, doesn't support extensions, and the browser chrome and all that is actually just a web app itself. So sure, it shares a renderer, but it's like saying that ChromeOS is powered by Safari. (Disclaimer: I work for Mozilla on Boot2G…

Thanks; have clarified the Gecko/Firefox difference.

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#28

Post by oliwer »

Is it just me or the author of the article did everything he could to make Boot to Gecko look bad, even if we know very little from it yet.

Since when being fully open source and easy to hack is a bad thing? The argument of operators crippling the phone with their apps is another problem. And I don't think Mozilla would approve distributing an OS which seriously limits the user freedom.

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#29

Post by MatthewPhillips »

slowpoke wrote: post #18
MatthewPhillips wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UI layer is already called Gaia, I would assume that's what they'll refer to the product when speaking to end-users.

The UI layer is explicitly replaceable, though.

True, I'm not sure it's important to make the distinction to end-users though.

Re: Mozilla partners up with LG to combat Apple and Google with its own device

#30

Post by PLejeck »

gcp wrote: post #19
PLejeck wrote: post #14

The part that scares me most is the thought that Mozilla is willing to give any power back to the carriers. I do not want this, not in a million years. I'll take Apple's walled garden over AT&T's heap of shit, any day of the week.

Giving power back to the carriers is unavoidable with an open system. Conversely, taking power away from someone is usually why you keep the system closed.

If the power is somewhere, I'd like it to be with Apple or Google, not AT&T. At least they tend to aim for making their customers happy, when AT&T seems quite intent on screwing me over.
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