Why Do Some People Learn Faster? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#21

Post by mekoka » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:24 PM UTC

mburney wrote: post #8

tpatke wrote: post #5

I think about Spolsky's post on programmer productivity quite often [1]. I think the most interesting part of the post is when he says, "The mediocre talent just never hits the high notes that the top talent hits all the time." Obviously, I wonder if I am a programmer who can hit the high notes and, if not, what it will take to get there. When I read a post like this, I try to apply it to making myself a better progr…

I have seen programmers make the same avoidable mistakes over and over again without learning much from them. Sure, they learn from syntactical errors and perhaps how to avoid specific kinds of errors. But how many programmers will actually re-model their entire coding paradigm in order to improve?

In order to learn from a "mistake" there needs to be some sort of feedback. Many programmers make the same mistake over and over because it hasn't yet come back to seriously bite them in the ass, or because the evidence of it isn't clear. Only then is the mistake corrected and the lesson learnt.

For example, in this day and age of fast processors, abundant memory, large hard-drives, you can't expect a novice to put much emphasis on efficiency. He'll code and will run his program just to see the output appear almost instantly. A veteran will look at it and shake her head, but that's because she knows that back in her days, code this inefficient guaranteed that you'd spend the day in the lab just waiting to see the first letter of the output. Don't expect the newbie to learn that lesson any time soon, with his blazingly fast laptop, on which he's working comfortably from his bedroom. Now, hand him one of those snail computers at his next internship and watch the transformation operate.

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#22

Post by espeed » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:25 PM UTC

This is a perfect example of what Alan Kay meant when he said, "A change in perspective is worth 80 IQ points."

I had this epiphany three years ago, and it has been my manifesto ever since (http://jamesthornton.com/manifesto).

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#23

Post by horsehead » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:28 PM UTC

This seems really related to the post from yesterday about how the one fellow learned from his daughter not to be afraid to fail (or maybe that was earlier today?).

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#24

Post by msg » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:39 PM UTC

tpatke wrote: post #5

I think about Spolsky's post on programmer productivity quite often [1]. I think the most interesting part of the post is when he says, "The mediocre talent just never hits the high notes that the top talent hits all the time." Obviously, I wonder if I am a programmer who can hit the high notes and, if not, what it will take to get there. When I read a post like this, I try to apply it to making myself a better progr…

I'm not a zealot for it, but test driven development does shorten the feedback loop in significant ways. You get specific feedback for problems and avoid making the same mistakes twice.

When I'm working with code that doesn't have it, runtime errors significantly lengthen the time between insights, as I hunt for the root cause of some bug.

The general point is that you do better work in small increments and revisions than you do, like Coleridge, getting high and watching masterpieces spill out of you, like Kubla Khan. You will be less sensitive to small things destroying your work, like Coleridge's visitor. Truish story.

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#25

Post by commanda » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:42 PM UTC

mekoka wrote: post #21

mburney wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen programmers make the same avoidable mistakes over and over again without learning much from them. Sure, they learn from syntactical errors and perhaps how to avoid specific kinds of errors. But how many programmers will actually re-model their entire coding paradigm in order to improve?

In order to learn from a "mistake" there needs to be some sort of feedback. Many programmers make the same mistake over and over because it hasn't yet come back to seriously bite them in the ass, or because the evidence of it isn't clear. Only then is the mistake corrected and the lesson learnt. For example, in this day and age of fast processors, abundant memory, large hard-drives, you can't expect a novice to put m…

If it never comes back to bite you (or anyone else) in the ass, was it really a mistake?

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#26

Post by jakesandlund » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:46 PM UTC

I know it has been mentioned before about this same study, but I can't remember where: what do you do when your kids are finding the work too easy? Praise them for their effort? That seems like it could backfire if they think they can get by in life with hardly any struggle, while still being complimented for their labor. Obviously, you could give them something challenging to learn, but what about when they're in school with kids that have a wide spread of natural talent? They will probably get good grades and be praised by their teachers for their intelligence, meanwhile getting bored of the same material over and over again. This seems to suggest the need for more individualized teaching, either by the parent, or by a teacher of some "gifted" class.

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#27

Post by jilebedev » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:50 PM UTC

aristus wrote: post #20

tpatke wrote: post #5

I think about Spolsky's post on programmer productivity quite often [1]. I think the most interesting part of the post is when he says, "The mediocre talent just never hits the high notes that the top talent hits all the time." Obviously, I wonder if I am a programmer who can hit the high notes and, if not, what it will take to get there. When I read a post like this, I try to apply it to making myself a better progr…

I've thought a lot about creativity by watching the people around me in art and science. I suspect that an important, perhaps defining characteristic of highly creative people is their ability to change their mind at will. (Similar to how a good scientist develops the ability to change his mind utterly when confronted with solid evidence, and change it back when that evidence is refuted.) A factor in that is developi…

Article: > unless we experience the unpleasant symptoms of being wrong — that surge of Pe activity a few hundred milliseconds after the error, directing our attention to the very thing we’d like to ignore — the mind will never revise its models

tpatke: > it just doesn't apply (and I am a huge fan on Dweck's work). This article is one for the masses - not people who are trying to create the next Google

aristus: > defining characteristic of highly creative people is their ability to change their mind at will. ... A factor in that is developing a strong associative memory ... seeking out many many kinds of knowledge and experiences and constantly trying to connect them together

Being wrong, persisting, and trying to learn from the mistake takes effort. It's difficult, and I suspect as difficult as (if not directly linked to) exerting self-control. Connecting thought is here: http://psr.sagepub.com/content/11/4/303.short

A good question for Moser/Dweck would be: is the physiological response of a child to a mistake a function of their blood glucose levels? I suspect that it is: anecdotally, people are a lot more optimistic and willing to explore an issue instead of yielding to to surface obstacles if they're on a sugar high.

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#28

Post by Splines » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

commanda wrote: post #25

mekoka wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to learn from a "mistake" there needs to be some sort of feedback. Many programmers make the same mistake over and over because it hasn't yet come back to seriously bite them in the ass, or because the evidence of it isn't clear. Only then is the mistake corrected and the lesson learnt. For example, in this day and age of fast processors, abundant memory, large hard-drives, you can't expect a novice to put m…

If it never comes back to bite you (or anyone else) in the ass, was it really a mistake?

True enough, needless optimization is often unnecessary.

The difference is that an expert will be able to make a good decision about that trade-off. A novice is restricted to the tools and practices they are familiar with - they might come to the same conclusion, but not for the same reasons.

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#29

Post by crusso » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 6:00 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #17

crusso wrote: post #9

Really, this kind of research points to the folly of the "everyone gets a trophy", "sheltering ego is most important in learning" school of thought. The every-day evidence of that folly litters the corpse of the American public education system. Praise your kids when they do well. Point it out when they've made mistakes (in a graceful way). Teach them that doing better next time is always within their power if they a…

No, that's just a straw man arguing for the opposite extreme. It's even better established that consistent failure and lack of praise anticorrelates with educational achievement. The point is balance and sanity, not policy flamage.

Speaking of straw men...

Did you read what I posted or make up something in your mind based upon your preconceptions?

All I said was that praise should be deserved. When you disconnect someone's mental model from reality, it has consequences.

Re: Why Do Some People Learn Faster?

#30

Post by shawndumas » Thu, Feb 23, 2012, 6:24 PM UTC

Fixed mindset -- “You have a certain amount of intelligence and cannot do much to change it.”

Growth mindset -- “[W]e can get better at almost anything, provided we invest the necessary time and energy.”

A fixed mindset and a growth mindset are not mutually exclusive beliefs.

As I see it there are three dependent factors in accomplishing a complex task:

1.) intelligence -- raw computational power (impacted minimally by sleep/diet/use)

2.) knowledge -- data stored regarding a given task (impacted immensely by attention/research/exposure)

3.) wisdom -- the application of 1 on 2 (impacted greatly by experience/composure/analysis)

Knowledge, and to a lesser extent wisdom, can come as a result of investing time and energy. Wisdom is an amplifier of intelligence and knowledge; it can produce an order of magnitude increase in efficacy with very little change in either of the other two.

Both can be true...