Live data from Hacker News

Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

theguardian.com

21–30 of 116 posts

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#21

This is a great example of where cancer treatment is headed and why it's so hard - namely that cancer isn't one disease, it's many thousands of diseases. This is a drug that targets lung cancer (~12% of cancers) and only one type of lung cancer (non-small cell lung cancer, ~80% of cases). It targets a particular mutated gene that occurs in about 30% of that subtype. And then, about 50% of those patients respond. So d…

"1.4% of all cancers"

This actually seems large to me.

Although that is suspiciously large. Looking at the numbers I think it should be much lower. A 51% reduction doesn't mean it helps 51% if the people. In this case it looks like about 10% of the people are effected given the 88% vs 78% survival rates, right? Maybe something like .28% of all cancer?

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#22

My mother in law has stage 4 lung cancer. Tagrisso is extending her life. The cancer has been shrinking since going on it with few side effects. Unfortunately stage 4 cannot be cured, and at some point tagrisso stops working. My understanding is the cancer mutates and eventually develops resistance. Then she will go on chemo and her quality of life will go down. I am thankful for modern medicine that we get some extr…

advice on how to catch earlier?

The really crappy part of lung cancer is that it's very uncommon to detect it because there aren't really any symptoms to speak of.

Eventually it will metastasize so some other part of the body and THAT will give symptoms.

When my Mum was diagnosed the Dr. said the bad news is you have cancer in the bones in your neck. The really bad news is that it started in your lungs, and it's way, way to far along to do anything about.

Cancer sucks.

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#23
The data isn’t published yet (presumably this was shown during the ASCO conference this weekend) but this is a bit misleading and the results seem underwhelming.

The DFS numbers are not new and known, the reason this is in the news as it’s the first report of OS numbers from the initial ADAURA trial.

I can’t be definitive without seeing the data yet but:

1. Osimertinib is not that new, in the context of curative intent disease (i.e. resectable stage II-IIIA) it is currently (ideally) used post adjuvant chemotherapy (the only treatment to date with an overall survival benefit).

We need clarification on what the placebo arm is and what the subgroup analysis showed. What it should be (and presumably) is an “active surveillance protocol” where patients underwent short course adjuvant platinum based therapy and then followed with imaging. Recurrences are then treated with systemic or locoregional therapy.

As this is an update of the ADAURA trial we know that only 40% of patients received the standard of care platinum adjuvant therapy, this article claims an OS benefit was seen in all groups but we don’t have the numbers for the subset of patients who received appropriate adjuvant treatment.

2. Main criticism of the ADAURA trial thus far has been that the results only report “disease free survival”, while that intuitively makes sense as a metric what we really care about is “overall survival”. There are several reasons but to keep it simple this is now the third generation tyrosine kinase inhibitor, the first 2 also had DFS improvements (albeit not as dramatic) but failed to show OS benefits.

3. Osimertinib is expensive. Following the ADAURA protocol (3 years of adjuvant therapy) would have an incremental cost (ICER) somewhere around ~$3-450,000 per patient. “Willingness to pay” is variable, in most places it’s $50,000/quality adjusted life year. Some in the US are pushing for this to be ~$190,000/QALY (3x GDP).

Based on extrapolated DFS and earlier OS data in the last year it was estimated that the OS would be around 5-6%, based on this threshold a system would need a willingness to pay of ~$320,000/QALY. Conversely, to meet the GDP threshold above OS would need to be ~20%.

In a recent Canadian economic analysis they modelled 6% OS at 10 years and arrived at a ICER of ~$40,000 suggesting this protocol makes economic sense. To my knowledge this is the first report suggesting cost effectiveness and contradicted the Health Canada modelling.

4. Based on this news article, there was an absolute reduction in OS of 10% at 5 years which seems underwhelming given that we know most of the patients did not receive adjuvant platinum based chemotherapy, the OS in the subgroup that received both treatments is what matters here.

From the US analysis, this would still not meet the willingness to pay threshold. The Canadian one would need to be re-run with 5 year numbers to see what the ICER is.

Overall, it’s potentially a very positive result but at face value the OS numbers seem less impressive than anticipated.

If someone has the $ and an EGFR ex19 mutation there is definitely benefit but it remains unclear whether this is cost-effective for a system vs other treatment options we have.

(N.B. These numbers are approximate from my recollection of the literature but I can dig up references if something seems off. For background I’m a radiologist focused on oncologic imaging, this has been a hot topic in rounds/case conferences for a few years now hence my familiarity.)

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#25

My mother in law has stage 4 lung cancer. Tagrisso is extending her life. The cancer has been shrinking since going on it with few side effects. Unfortunately stage 4 cannot be cured, and at some point tagrisso stops working. My understanding is the cancer mutates and eventually develops resistance. Then she will go on chemo and her quality of life will go down. I am thankful for modern medicine that we get some extr…

advice on how to catch earlier?

Low dose CT scan for those susceptible.

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/basic_info/screening.htm

https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/recomme...

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#26

This is a great example of where cancer treatment is headed and why it's so hard - namely that cancer isn't one disease, it's many thousands of diseases. This is a drug that targets lung cancer (~12% of cancers) and only one type of lung cancer (non-small cell lung cancer, ~80% of cases). It targets a particular mutated gene that occurs in about 30% of that subtype. And then, about 50% of those patients respond. So d…

The way forward then seems to be personalized therapy for each case. There have been some limited trials with CRISPR that look promising, but mainstream adoption is still likely years away.

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#27

This is a great example of where cancer treatment is headed and why it's so hard - namely that cancer isn't one disease, it's many thousands of diseases. This is a drug that targets lung cancer (~12% of cancers) and only one type of lung cancer (non-small cell lung cancer, ~80% of cases). It targets a particular mutated gene that occurs in about 30% of that subtype. And then, about 50% of those patients respond. So d…

Just because this approach works doesn't mean this is the only approach out there. I sincerely believe that this thought has singlehandedly retarded progress towards more generic cancer treatments. Immune checkpoint inhibition is a clear proof that you could make one drug that could attack a wide swathe of cancers. Heck even chemo is proof of that. If this is the research you want to focus on, please go ahead. But don't tell the public the continuous half truth that every cancer is unique with no commonality with any other cancer. They all literally share the same DNA, they can't be that different. Consider the possibility that the entire cancer research community is just too dumb to discover globally effective drugs. Unless you can mathematically prove its impossibility I'll say let's not make that statement.

Signed, a guy who spent most of his PhD studying cancer.

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

advice on how to catch earlier?

The really crappy part of lung cancer is that it's very uncommon to detect it because there aren't really any symptoms to speak of. Eventually it will metastasize so some other part of the body and THAT will give symptoms. When my Mum was diagnosed the Dr. said the bad news is you have cancer in the bones in your neck. The really bad news is that it started in your lungs, and it's way, way to far along to do anything…

The good thing is in most people (particularly smokers) it is very slow growing.

We also have great non-invasive curative treatment options like stereotactic radiation.

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#29
post #26

This is a great example of where cancer treatment is headed and why it's so hard - namely that cancer isn't one disease, it's many thousands of diseases. This is a drug that targets lung cancer (~12% of cancers) and only one type of lung cancer (non-small cell lung cancer, ~80% of cases). It targets a particular mutated gene that occurs in about 30% of that subtype. And then, about 50% of those patients respond. So d…

The way forward then seems to be personalized therapy for each case. There have been some limited trials with CRISPR that look promising, but mainstream adoption is still likely years away.

Personalized therapy might possibly not work for a really long time. Consider each drug to be a code change at heart of the most critical code running the code of your body. Clinical trials are the integration testing and ab testing equivalent of making sure this change doesn't have side effects. Personalized therapy means you have no way of testing in a comparable system. Unless you're gonna clone babies of yourself give them the same cancer and see if it treats them and doesn't kill them (and then pull a Prestige)

Re: Lung cancer pill cuts risk of death by half

#30

This is a great example of where cancer treatment is headed and why it's so hard - namely that cancer isn't one disease, it's many thousands of diseases. This is a drug that targets lung cancer (~12% of cancers) and only one type of lung cancer (non-small cell lung cancer, ~80% of cases). It targets a particular mutated gene that occurs in about 30% of that subtype. And then, about 50% of those patients respond. So d…

Thats still 1366 people every day worldwide.

Think about that... If the committee whose job is approving this medicine get results in on Friday, but don't sit down to approve it till the following Monday, then 4098 people die unnecessarily.

Post reply on HN