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US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

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Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#21
post #2

> US Air Force official says, 'It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective' This makes it seem like the whole thing was a setup to precipitate an argument about whether or not AI can be trusted. If you can already act without the operator's permission (which you patently can, if you can kill the operator) then why do you need to kill the operator?

> then why do you need to kill the operator?

Because "operator tells me to stop, target is dead" is a losing condition, while "operator is dead, target is also dead" is a winning condition.

That said, remember that "simulation" here can mean "wargaming", which is basically like a military form of D&D: Military people control what they control, but there are have referees who act as the DM and decide what everything else in the universe does. (I.e., "Your entire platoon is now dead; lie down.") I'd be willing to wager that it was the referee who decided to have the drone kill the operator, and then kill the control tower.

This scenario is basically exactly the "Stop button problem" [1] that AI alignment people bring up. That problem always seemed a bit contrived to me: like, this is not a problem that biological general intelligences have (i.e., we can train dogs to stop attacking when we give the command). If it really was a GPT-like AI making those decisions, it confirms some of what Yudowski and other AI "doomers" have been saying; but the close similarity makes it seem more likely to me to be due to the referee being aware of the "stop button problem" and acting it out.

[1] https://www.cantorsparadise.com/the-math-of-ai-alignment-101...

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#22
In the Guardian version of this article[1] they also mention that they let an AI control an F-16 fighter, so I think the experiments go beyond simple role-play in a ChatGPT window!

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/us-military-...

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#23

What’s with several comments wondering if the military is playing with an LLM for shits and giggles and pretend-play “you are a drone”. That’s insane. Edit: maybe it IS a “discussion” piece, who knows at this point. Information space shaping is a thing, after all. Sheesh, what a world we live in.

Information space shaping sounds like "propaganda" fed through the euphemism machine a few times.

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#24

In the Guardian version of this article[1] they also mention that they let an AI control an F-16 fighter, so I think the experiments go beyond simple role-play in a ChatGPT window! [1] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/us-military-...

In an entirely separate and unrelated testing program.

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#25
post #14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it haven't happen at all? "US air force denies running simulation in which AI drone ‘killed’ operator" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/01/us-military-...

On the other hand, I'm not sure whether I would confirm active research work on apparently rather capable combat AIs right now, if I were some USAF official.

The original blog post [1] is a summary of the talks at the "REAeS Future Combat Air & Space Capabilities Summit"; the summary of the AI talk is 2/3 of the way through the blog post. So either:

* Col Hamilton leaked information he wasn't supposed to, and now the AF is trying to deny it

* The person who summarized Col Hamilton's talk was really confused about what was said, and the AF is generally trying to shut down wrong impressions

* Col Hamilton and/or the summarizer made things up. (Was the blog post written by GPT-4?)

[1] https://www.aerosociety.com/news/highlights-from-the-raes-fu...

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#26
Mis-specified optimization problems tend to create "interesting" solutions - nothing unusual.

Pretty amazing actually that they might not have specified areas that cannot be targeted, simple conditions really, but instead had some net condition (which are usually tricky).

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#27
post #2

> US Air Force official says, 'It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective' This makes it seem like the whole thing was a setup to precipitate an argument about whether or not AI can be trusted. If you can already act without the operator's permission (which you patently can, if you can kill the operator) then why do you need to kill the operator?

I mean, it's not hard to imagine that scenario in a simulated training environment (though as others reported, this story is misreported, there was no sim, only a thought experiment):

You have a training environment that is symmetrical, you have enemy drone operators, that use an enemy communications network to give commands to units and to control their drones. You could maybe model the ability of each component to function/to contribute to the operation as a bayesian graph.

You equally have the same infrastructure for your own drone.

Now you try to get the drone to pick the right targets to impact the enemy operation maximally - if the operator could possibly minimize the drone's contribution, the operator not vetoing will maximize the success of each target engagement.

You could see similar behavior with all kinds of "reach the goal in this simulated environment" training, where the model ended up using glitches or trivial solutions, if those weren't sufficiently penalized.

If the story as reported were true, the fault would be in the simulation environment - the model for the drone just picks the path of least resistance.

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#28
post #15

So, this was a simulation? Did it even involve a real drone / control tower?

The title and contents of the article indicate it was a simulation.

But a simulation could be a trial, involving a real drone.

Re: US military AI drone simulation kills operator, then takes out control tower

#29

It seems like this story was misreported: Flagging that "in sim" here does not mean what you appear to be taking it to mean. This particular example was a constructed scenario rather than a rules-based simulation. So by itself, it adds no evidence one way or the other. (Source: know the team that supplied the scenario.) https://twitter.com/harris_edouard/status/166439036920568217... As the tweet poster clarifies, no…

That entirely changes the tone and makes a lot more sense.
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