Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter • Hacker News Board

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#21

Post by polpo » Wed, May 31, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

phh wrote: post #2

To quickly lower expectations before reading the article: > Every year with these Arm flagship chip announcements, the company also includes a wild design for a giant mega-chip that usually never gets built. That being said, this 14-core figure is when doing a full-Arm SoC (with Arm internal bus). SoC vendors are still allowed (AFAIK [0]) to do their custom interconnect that goes higher than that [0] there have been…

Given that there is a whole publicly traded company that does ARM SoC interconnect as their bread and butter (Arteris IP) and they and their stock price seem to be doing OK is an indication that it’s still allowed.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#22

Post by qwytw » Wed, May 31, 2023, 2:32 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #7

dankle wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but in consumer hardware, their silicon outperforms the competition.

Yep. Ray-ban's optics are world-class as well, but that doesn't exclude them from being called a lifestyle company.

Iphone and Macs are obviously huge in the enterprise market though.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#23

Post by qwytw » Wed, May 31, 2023, 2:35 PM UTC

hardware2win wrote: post #14

dijit wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If AMD is a chip maker then so is Apple by the same metrics. So, pick those metrics, they're certainly pushing large volumes, they're pushing some of the highest performance and some of the most efficient CPUs available. So, they're #1 in power efficiency, #1 in fanless performance, #1 in Tablets, #1 in Fanless computers, #1 in Mini computers.

If you outsource chip creation, then you are chip designer, arent you? >Fabless manufacturing is the design and sale of hardware devices and semiconductor chips while outsourcing their fabrication (or fab) to a specialized manufacturer called a semiconductor foundry. These foundries are typically, but not exclusively, located in the United States, China, and Taiwan What about other categories Gaming, Data Center?

So if we're talking about high-end chips Intel and Samsung are both designers and manufactuerers? And Samsung seems to have mostly abandoned Exynos and is using Qualcomms SoC now. So that only leaves Intel..

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#24

Post by GeekyBear » Wed, May 31, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

DCKing wrote: post #15

I did not expect ARM would take so long to catch up with even the Apple M1 or the same core designs in the Apple A14. The Cortex X3 in the current flagship chip Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 still _just_ fails to match the Apple A14 (let alone the A15 and A16), perhaps this little design boost is finally enough to match it. If Microsoft can get Qualcomm to implement some of the same chip tricks Apple pulled off for x86 emulatio…

> I did not expect ARM would take so long to catch up with even the Apple M1 or the same core designs in the Apple A14.

As mentioned in the article, you might want to pay attention to the traditional difference between what ARM promises and what it delivers.

> these launch events have a history of making performance claims that don't align with what actually arrives in consumers' hands

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#25

Post by Aromasin » Wed, May 31, 2023, 2:47 PM UTC

retskrad wrote: post #3

It’s hilarious how Apple has become the number one chip maker in the world. Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger called them a lifestyle company…

It's a bit of an unfair statement but I do see where he's coming from. Apple make consumer phones and laptops, professional workstations, wearables, headphones, and TV/Home products. We've yet to see an M series chip for products in any of the following fields:

Cloud Computing, Computer Vision, Data Center Solutions, Edge Computing, High Performance Computing, IT Infrastructure, Network Connectivity, Robotics, Security, Broadcasting, Energy & Utilities, Financial Services, Government & Public Sector, Health & Life Sciences, Hospitality & Restaurants, Industrial, Manufacturing, Retail, Smart Cities, Transportation.

Intel, NVIDIA, AMD, Qualcomm, and Arm make devices or design IP for every single one of those sectors. Apples' portfolio is streamlined to just "lifestyle sectors"; stuff people directly interact with in their every day lives. How can you call them the number one chip maker when they don't compete in any of those markets, and even in the one they do they're only superior in performance per watt; not sheer performance benchmarks? Until we start seeing M2 chips in everything from server racks and satellites, I'm inclined to side with Gelsinger on this one.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#26

Post by hardware2win » Wed, May 31, 2023, 2:48 PM UTC

qwytw wrote: post #23

hardware2win wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you outsource chip creation, then you are chip designer, arent you? >Fabless manufacturing is the design and sale of hardware devices and semiconductor chips while outsourcing their fabrication (or fab) to a specialized manufacturer called a semiconductor foundry. These foundries are typically, but not exclusively, located in the United States, China, and Taiwan What about other categories Gaming, Data Center?

So if we're talking about high-end chips Intel and Samsung are both designers and manufactuerers? And Samsung seems to have mostly abandoned Exynos and is using Qualcomms SoC now. So that only leaves Intel..

I'd say that chip makers = manufacture, so TSMC too

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#27

Post by m0shen » Wed, May 31, 2023, 3:00 PM UTC

retskrad wrote: post #3

It’s hilarious how Apple has become the number one chip maker in the world. Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger called them a lifestyle company…

Number one in performance / watt? maybe? sales? Well no. According to the web[1] total chip sales in 2022 excluding arm amount to 374 million units. Server chips being 36.1 million units. Apple's biggest quarter in 2022 was 7 million macs in Q4[2].

[1]: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3688288/amd-gains-share...

[2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263444/sales-of-apple-ma...

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#28

Post by argsnd » Wed, May 31, 2023, 3:06 PM UTC

m0shen wrote: post #27

retskrad wrote: post #3

It’s hilarious how Apple has become the number one chip maker in the world. Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger called them a lifestyle company…

Number one in performance / watt? maybe? sales? Well no. According to the web[1] total chip sales in 2022 excluding arm amount to 374 million units. Server chips being 36.1 million units. Apple's biggest quarter in 2022 was 7 million macs in Q4[2]. [1]: https://www.networkworld.com/article/3688288/amd-gains-share... [2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263444/sales-of-apple-ma...

Why are you excluding iOS devices?

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#29

Post by smoldesu » Wed, May 31, 2023, 3:08 PM UTC

DCKing wrote: post #15

I did not expect ARM would take so long to catch up with even the Apple M1 or the same core designs in the Apple A14. The Cortex X3 in the current flagship chip Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 still _just_ fails to match the Apple A14 (let alone the A15 and A16), perhaps this little design boost is finally enough to match it. If Microsoft can get Qualcomm to implement some of the same chip tricks Apple pulled off for x86 emulatio…

None of the manufacturers want in. x86 is unencumbered by licensing issues, and RISC-V is moving through evaluation like a jackrabbit on speed. Apple has incentive to make ARM chips - they're deep in bed with Softbank (ARM licenseholders) and were already designing their own ARM cores. Nvidia has a few industrial-application HPC ARM chips they manufacture, but have been noticeably quiet about ARM after the failed acquisition attempt. Intel is cashing in on fabless manufacturing and also not designing their own cores. AMD has it's headphones on and doesn't see the RISC truck barrelling down Main Street.

So... I would honestly be surprised if anyone tried, at this point. Most of the potential stakeholders don't seem super interested.

Re: Arm announces the Cortex X4 for 2024, plus a 14-core M2-fighter

#30

Post by smoldesu » Wed, May 31, 2023, 3:09 PM UTC

qwytw wrote: post #22

smoldesu wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Ray-ban's optics are world-class as well, but that doesn't exclude them from being called a lifestyle company.

Iphone and Macs are obviously huge in the enterprise market though.

If I had a dime for every lifestyle product that was "obviously huge in the enterprise" I could fund the next WeWork in a cash deposit.