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Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

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Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#21

Post by halostatue »

IvarTJ wrote: post #6
koenigdavidmj wrote: post #2

Columns do not work on the web.

I had fun making a horizontal web page once. It might have worked better if the columns were more segmented so that you didn’t have to scroll down and up and then down again. That way you could get more content for less scrolling and maintain comfortable line length.

The Verge mostly does this right, I think. They'll move text between left and right columns, and have images and blank space on the opposite side.

This, on the other hand, was a pain to read—so I skimmed it.

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#22

Post by pan69 »

My problem isn't so much with the innovation. My problem is with the lack of choice both Unity and GNOME 3 give to their users.

What Ubuntu and GNOME 3 are doing is not giving their users an option. I run Ubuntu on a work station, which is not a tiny screen gadget. I need to do work on this thing and I'd like to get work done.

Both Unity and GNOME 3 are departing from life time engrained metaphors and replacing them with supposedly better ways (whereas beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess). No start menu, or menus at all. No icons on your desktop (wtf do I have a desktop for then?), Massive icons sticking out everywhere taking over valuable screen real-estate and be in your face at all time, etc.

If those new ways of doing things would be optional, at least for now, and either be able to be turned on or off rather than forced down your throat than in my opinion the resistance would have a lot less. Also, if those new ways of doing things would really be better it's something the end users can decide, not 20 people in a focus group.

On top of all this, timing couldn't be worse. Both the introduction of Unity and the discontinuation of GNOME 2...

I currently run Ubuntu 11.04 simply because it's the latest Ubuntu version GNOME 2. I have no intentions to upgrade and I'm looking for an alternative. OS X?

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#24

Post by hackoder »

hsmyers wrote: post #5

As we get closer to the next big version (wherein most of the apocalyptic changes take place) I'll be reading HN for useful lists of alternatives. Anyone with useful suggestions can chip in now of course :)

Debian is fantastic. I tend to stay on testing (wheezy atm) because it is fairly modern yet stable.

Stability is the biggest problem with Ubuntu I believe- people will generally adapt to the UI changes that canonical is making, but breaking stability is a complete no-no. Even today, on Ubuntu 11.10, Unity shows wierd bugs time and time again. Apps like VirtualBox and KeePassx will show multiple times (or just disappear) in the dock. And sometimes the whole unity interface will close and restart itself.

Compare this to the old gnome2, or xfce, openbox etc; You can go for months without the UI doing anything unexpected.

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#25

Post by njharman »

> that hides the base system as completely as possible

That is the "doing it wrong" part. But, I can see/admit my "doing it wrong" is someone's grandma's "doing it right". Although, I still think (wished) grandma had to learn how a car/computer/foo worked "grossly" before she was allowed to operate it.

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#26

Post by nfm »

"Canonical is repeating a lot of Apple’s mistakes, however, as they are using the same closed feedback loop development system that Apple is using"

Care to elaborate? This process seems to be going well for Apple!

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#27

Post by lhnn »

pan69 wrote: post #22

My problem isn't so much with the innovation. My problem is with the lack of choice both Unity and GNOME 3 give to their users. What Ubuntu and GNOME 3 are doing is not giving their users an option. I run Ubuntu on a work station, which is not a tiny screen gadget. I need to do work on this thing and I'd like to get work done. Both Unity and GNOME 3 are departing from life time engrained metaphors and replacing them…

Debian (Stable and Testing) are running GNOME 2.

My issues with Unity, as of Unity 5 (in Ubuntu 12.04):

1) Alt-tab should switch between windows within a workspace. This is HUGE. What is the point of workspaces if your navigation buttons/application launchers ignore the boundries?

2) Clicking on an application launcher should open a new instance of the program, not retrieve a window already open.

3) IF item 2 is to remain true, then the possible windows to re-focus should ONLY be the windows in the current workspace. See item 1.

4) Unity's taskbar should be movable to the bottom of the screen.

---

Credit where it's due: Unity 5 allows resizing of the Unity bar, and you can now pin it to the desktop, so it's not constantly popping over the left side of the window when you try to close windows, access menus, etc.

One must still install gnome-tweak-tools to edit the font configuration and other things, which is inexcuseable.

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#28

Post by sea6ear »

hsmyers wrote: post #5

As we get closer to the next big version (wherein most of the apocalyptic changes take place) I'll be reading HN for useful lists of alternatives. Anyone with useful suggestions can chip in now of course :)

I've been trying out Arch Linux (http://www.archlinux.org) for a few weeks now and am really happy with the results. I installed using ArchBang (http://archbang.org) which I think for a first time install might be the best way to go. (I think I'm almost ready to try a from scratch Arch install)

Now that it's installed and I'm used to the package manager (pacman - which I like better than apt-get / aptitude if that's possible) I find that it's been refreshingly easy on a day to day basis. And I feel like I have a great deal more confidence that I know what's actually going on as far as installed programs and configured behaviour.

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#29

Post by AUmrysh »

asadotzler wrote: post #12

"The 'usability studies' that get quoted whenever I have talked to people from Canonical about this have participation numbers that are laughably low. Having a focus group with two or three dozen hand-picked candidates to 'evaluate' complex user experience changes like these does not seem convincing to me. It seems ludicrous." Dismissing out of hand as "ludicrous" that user research on small groups can and very often…

The difference is that users can understand when the interface is poorly designed because they have to interact with it constantly. Sure, there are parts of UX that most users never think about, but when something has been overlooked, like when you can't move the launcher sidebar to the bottom, or the settings are confusing to get to, there's a usability problem.

I think the real thing about Ubuntu, however, is that it's Linux. That means if you don't like Unity, you can install GDM, KDE, Fluxbox, Awesome or any number of other window managers. You aren't stuck with the (subjectively) poor design decisions Canonical made, and you certainly have more choice than you do in OS X or Windows.

Re: Ubuntu: you’re doing it wrong

#30

Post by freehunter »

notatoad wrote: post #4

more accurate title: "ubuntu: i don't like what you're doing anymore." ubuntu isn't doing anything wrong. they're not doing things the old way, nor are they pretending to. it's top down control with unilateral decisions, but that's what's necessary to move forward. for a product to come out well, decisions have to be made. if you listen to everybody, you get a product that sacrifices quality in favour of not pissing…

I agree completely. Design by community is what every distro does. As a result, Linux got nowhere on the desktop. Maybe the problem lies in how Ubuntu communicates. It is very much a "we'll do it how we want to do it". And as a result, it's been very successful. If Ubuntu was designed by the community, it would be just another distro. The fact that it has top-down directed design means it can differentiate. Ubuntu's measure of success can be directly tied to the amount of outrage from the Linux community, people who don't seem to understand that Ubuntu is Ubuntu and Debian is Linux and they can both successfully coexist.

Linux on the desktop was always a non-starter until Ubuntu gave it a kick in the ass. Now there's even a successful Ubuntu-only PC maker, System76 making (not quite) Apple-style laptops. Because of Shuttleworth, we have a nearly-ready viable third option in the market.

Do I agree with all their choices? No. Am I using Ubuntu on a daily basis? No. Am I looking forward to the day when they announce Ubuntu is "ready"? Hell yes. If you have a point, make it. If you just want to complain, get a cat.

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