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The New Interface Is There Is No interface

tightwind.net

21–28 of 28 posts

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#21
post #11

Physical objects have/are interfaces too. What do you think handles, levers, door knobs, gear shifters, file cabinets and flat surfaces are? Between our senses and external reality, there will always be an interface. The beauty of computers is we are much less dependent on the physical properties of actual objects in designing those interfaces. Maybe that's what the author is getting at, but I think they are saying i…

when I started doing user interface testing on websites in the mid/late 90s, all the literature I could find about user testing in the engineering library was related to industrial design / testing consumer products. EDIT: it was probably more accurately the late 90s

In many ways, the industrial realm is still where the forefront of interface design is, and covers an area far wider than anything software hopes to do right now. In fact, I'd consider the industrial flavor of interface design to be far truer to "interface design" than what we see in mobile/web, which is often just "graphics design" in camouflage.

In industry, UI has consequences. A confusing readout may crash a plane and kill hundreds. A warning that doesn't trigger under expected circumstances can slice a man in two. A button that doesn't require enough force to push can accidentally decapitate. The list goes on. What you get from that side are incredibly usable, incredibly easy to understand, incredibly fault-tolerant interfaces... that are ugly as hell.

Whereas from the mobile/web side we often see pointlessly obtuse, absurdly minimalistic, confusingly designed interfaces that are works of art. We often confuse these with "good interface design" because they are different, new, and beautiful.

I really wish those of us in web/mobile can get off our high horses and learn a bit from un-sexy things like metal presses, diesel locomotives, and airplane cockpits.

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when I started doing user interface testing on websites in the mid/late 90s, all the literature I could find about user testing in the engineering library was related to industrial design / testing consumer products. EDIT: it was probably more accurately the late 90s

In many ways, the industrial realm is still where the forefront of interface design is, and covers an area far wider than anything software hopes to do right now. In fact, I'd consider the industrial flavor of interface design to be far truer to "interface design" than what we see in mobile/web, which is often just "graphics design" in camouflage. In industry, UI has consequences. A confusing readout may crash a plan…

In industry, UI has consequences.

Good point. High stakes make for deliberate interface design.

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#23
post #10
post #7

In some cases, mobile apps force you to put shit IN THE WAY of what the user is doing because of a lack of hardware interface for the user. Game on an iPhone? Sorry, I'm going to need to stick buttons in the way of your visuals. So, you had a 3.5 inch display area, already small enough, and now you have to stick buttons and joysticks and touch menus on it. If not qwerty, at least throw me two or three buttons. Bah.

I think you are making the author's point for him. A game that requires a virtual joypad is not a game that is well designed for a phone. It's using a hammer to put in a screw. There are plenty of iPhone games that do not use the virtual buttons interface.

And the vast majority of those games are terrible. Partially because of a low budget, partially because of a low barrier to entry for the developers, and partially because touch screens are terrible interfaces for human beings to interact with where precision (positioning, timing, speed of repetition, among others) is concerned.

Some genres make sense for touch (RTS, Angry Birds), some don't. Accelerometers are flaky.

My point was that I believe phone designers are sacrificing substance for style. The iPhone has space for at least 4 more buttons without a slide-out.

Touch-only phones are a fad. Buttons will be back. Watch.

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#24
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Siri is important in a variety of ways, but voice driven apps in the traditional model (a la Siri) aren't how I perceive the future of interfaces to be. You wouldn't use Siri on a date, or in public would you? There are just some important issues that are raised by Siri that a lot of people sort of neglect. I don't think voice apps will be successful in a broad, paradigm shifting way. But, they will have thei…

Voice driven apps like Siri are one step away from being thought-driven apps, though. Full conscience interfacing is still a pipe dream, but word recognition from brain patterns already has proofs of concept.

I definitely agree, and I do think Siri and the like are very important steps to get there. I just don't think in the short term (relative short term) that these apps can gain enough traction in the wide scope that is championed by some of the proponents for voice apps.

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#25
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are making the author's point for him. A game that requires a virtual joypad is not a game that is well designed for a phone. It's using a hammer to put in a screw. There are plenty of iPhone games that do not use the virtual buttons interface.

And the vast majority of those games are terrible. Partially because of a low budget, partially because of a low barrier to entry for the developers, and partially because touch screens are terrible interfaces for human beings to interact with where precision (positioning, timing, speed of repetition, among others) is concerned. Some genres make sense for touch (RTS, Angry Birds), some don't. Accelerometers are flaky…

And? The whole point is, you can have totally new modes of control. They are crappy modes of control, but they are fun, and that's the point of games anyway.

It would be nice to have a joypad, so you can still play stuff that's following the old generation. Nintendo would have sold a joypad with it, because Nintendo makes everything backwards compatible with the last generation. You can play GameCube games on the Wii, and some of them are pretty good, having learned all the rules for the old interface.

I'm not sure buttons will be back. A touch-pad on the back, which displays your inputs on the front might replace them for most things. They'd need to be pressure sensitive, and have some kind of dynamic calibration (because pressure sensitive stuff is either oversensitive, or doesn't register anything), but it's not impossible (I think). It would be an interesting AI question - how to differentiate clicks, "swishes", and fat fingers; but that's the only real barrier I can think of.

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#26
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the vast majority of those games are terrible. Partially because of a low budget, partially because of a low barrier to entry for the developers, and partially because touch screens are terrible interfaces for human beings to interact with where precision (positioning, timing, speed of repetition, among others) is concerned. Some genres make sense for touch (RTS, Angry Birds), some don't. Accelerometers are flaky…

And? The whole point is, you can have totally new modes of control. They are crappy modes of control, but they are fun , and that's the point of games anyway. It would be nice to have a joypad, so you can still play stuff that's following the old generation. Nintendo would have sold a joypad with it, because Nintendo makes everything backwards compatible with the last generation. You can play GameCube games on the Wi…

Recently I bought a Sanza Fuze. Largely because I wanted an audio player, and not a locked-pocket-computer that happens to play music. What I learned from the experience is that touch sucks as a universal interface.

0) It is not always obvious what gestures to make to have the device perform a certain action. For something that I will pull out many times and interact with while doing something else, I should never have to think about how to do something.

1) In the cases where there are multiple gestures one can make at one screen, it is very often that you will make the wrong one or the machine will interpret your gesture incorrectly. This sucks. Having to memorize gestures brings us back to the era where most applications were navigated by keyboard shortcut. (In fact, I would prefer the keyboard shortcuts. At least those are non-ambiguous.)

2) Touch screens are quite possibly the best way invented by man to smudge display hardware. Even when a touchscreen has been forgone in favor of a touch pad below the display. Between greasy, sticky, food, dirty hands, and just plain wear, I basically have to constantly damage my display to interact with the device. Which is why most people end up getting a case. (Case-hell is its own subject really.)

3) Specifically for the case of video games, there is nothing more frustrating then the interface effecting your ability to play the game. Considering that the latency of wireless controllers is considered too much by the most hardcore of gamers, it stands to reason that touch interface will be universally looked down upon by anyone playing anything more complex than say; wii bowling.

Addressing your concept of a touch pad on the back to save the poor screen. Your forgetting that most people hold mobile devices in such a way that a touch pad on the back would be constantly triggered simply by holding the device with a firm grip. (And encouraging people to hold it with anything less is a bad idea considering how fragile they are.)

I expect buttons to be around for a long time to come.

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when I started doing user interface testing on websites in the mid/late 90s, all the literature I could find about user testing in the engineering library was related to industrial design / testing consumer products. EDIT: it was probably more accurately the late 90s

In many ways, the industrial realm is still where the forefront of interface design is, and covers an area far wider than anything software hopes to do right now. In fact, I'd consider the industrial flavor of interface design to be far truer to "interface design" than what we see in mobile/web, which is often just "graphics design" in camouflage. In industry, UI has consequences. A confusing readout may crash a plan…

Donald Norman's The Design of Everyday Things [1] and Turn Signals Are the Facial Expressions of Automobiles [2] are must-read classics about human interfaces in both physical and "computer" realms.

[1] http://www.jnd.org/books.html#33 [2] http://www.jnd.org/books.html#34

Re: The New Interface Is There Is No interface

#28
I am a music producer and audio engineer, which these days means I labor at the computer. I have come to the conclusion that the GUI as we know it is a really bad interface at which to labor.

One of the fundamental problems is that it breaks our normal mind/body connection. It is virtually impossible to develop any kind of muscle memory using an interface that requires different physical movements for the same act.

Using a application over time, we do learn to work in an unconscious, trance-like state. But it requires a rigid posture to maintain visual connection with the location of the mouse and the state of the interface. This leads quickly to fatigue and potential repetitive strain injury.

I do think the touch interfaces are an improvement in this context (they reconnect mind/body/application). But for something as labor intensive and complex as audio production (or any media production) I don't think they will be usable for sustained work (at least with existing interface metaphors).

I have developed a tool for use with Pro Tools audio software, the Hotkey Matrix. It is a keyboard with pre-configured single key keyboard shortcuts. It has a number of features which are distinct from the many other attempts at control surfaces for audio software, and somewhat against the tenor of the times.

The shortcuts are fixed. We have iterated the specific shortcuts and layout over many years of production use. They are color coded, there are no modes or pages, so the same function is always in the same place and it is easy to target. It basically replaces and adds to the default keyboard shortcuts in Pro Tools. Pro Tools has a nice set of default single key shortcuts, but since it has so many, increasingly elaborate key bindings and two hands are required to use them (some have four modifier keys).

I'm convinced this is a superior interface enhancement on a lot of levels. It brings back some tactile response, and makes both muscle and mental memorization a lot easier. Since production work is extremely repetitive, it saves a thousands of keystrokes.

I think there is a long way to go in improving interfaces for complex media software. The computer brings tremendous benefits and cost savings to audio production, so there is no going back. It is now trivial to build up a virtual studio environment in a laptop that would have literally cost millions of dollars back in the 90s (not to mention insane electric bills). But the awesome thing about old school analog production was that each parameter in a project got its own dedicated knob/button/fader.

I miss those all those knobs/buttons/faders!

I'm also convinced that most software developers who make tools for professionals never use their software as a professional does (they don't have the time). Hence they make design decisions that turn out to be non-optimal over long use. I've used a lot of audio applications, and IMO Pro Tools is the best. My guess is that since they have a large installed base of professionals and some kind of feedback mechanism from the user base, their updates tend in the direction of increased usability (for pro users). Usability for apps that are simple and used infrequently is very different, and it is here that the comments of the OP are most on point.

Anyhow, I've wanting to run this by the HN community to see what people think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTvhwtvw2sI

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