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It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

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Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#21

Post by JohnFen »

petsfed wrote: post #13
Taywee wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people I've met really could use more fulfilling hobbies.

How many of those people feel like they have time to pursue more fulfilling activities? Speaking only for myself, my more fulfilling hobbies feel like a zero-sum proposition when I factor in taking care of myself, my kids, my home, etc. What little leisure time activies I pursue are almost all pursued between the hours of 9 and 11pm, because that's the time I have . I think the OP is right in a lot of ways, that work…

> How many of those people feel like they have time to pursue more fulfilling activities?

And yet, most people have hours every day available to spend watching movies, YouTube, etc. That is time that could be spent doing something fulfilling.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#22

Post by JohnFen »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #2

More importantly, I think, with AI automation coming in full force, we need to decouple one's working hours with their right to live a comfortable life, especially for the lower and middle class.

That is important. It's also something that simply isn't going to happen, at least not for a generation or two (to be optimistic).

In the meantime, AI automation is more likely to increase people's struggle by eliminating a whole lot of jobs.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#23

Post by mym1990 »

sph wrote: post #20
JohnFen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that I would much prefer to work 4 10 hour days than 5 8 hour days. I want to have as many days in a row as I can that I don't have to give to an employer.

Hear me out. 40 hours dedicated to your employer, however you slice them, is modern slavery. Why the hell are we creating all this technology to slave even more, with only energy to drool in front of Netflix and repeat the next day? People should have the time to explore their passions, projects and families more than a couple hours every day. Not dedicate half of their waking life , their mental and physical prime,…

Wow, 250k a year to go to work 8-5 is “modern slavery”. On a bit of a high horse there.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#24

Post by Bang2Bay »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #16
wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

>I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. The problem is that meetings are considered work and there's no output from those other than long term planning that can't be measured day to day.

it is really odd to only discuss long term plans in a meeting.

Meetings help individuals present their idea/code and reviewer to critically/loudly think about the solutions. If that does not happen, thinking happening offline is not likely.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#25

Post by JohnFen »

sph wrote: post #20
JohnFen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that I would much prefer to work 4 10 hour days than 5 8 hour days. I want to have as many days in a row as I can that I don't have to give to an employer.

Hear me out. 40 hours dedicated to your employer, however you slice them, is modern slavery. Why the hell are we creating all this technology to slave even more, with only energy to drool in front of Netflix and repeat the next day? People should have the time to explore their passions, projects and families more than a couple hours every day. Not dedicate half of their waking life , their mental and physical prime,…

Oh, we agree more than we disagree.

The only part I really take issue with is the notion that working for someone is modern slavery. I don't think it's anything even close that. Slaves can't quit and do something else. They can't even change who their "owners" are.

> I'd rather eat ramen, than get $250k a year and expected to be at my employer's beck and call 8am-5pm.

I know a lot of people who make that exact choice.

> The fact that pretty much no one seems to see anything wrong with this terrifies me.

I think lots of people see the problem and fundamentally agree with you. The issue is that solutions to the problem are difficult for most people.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#26

Post by sph »

mym1990 wrote: post #23
sph wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear me out. 40 hours dedicated to your employer, however you slice them, is modern slavery. Why the hell are we creating all this technology to slave even more, with only energy to drool in front of Netflix and repeat the next day? People should have the time to explore their passions, projects and families more than a couple hours every day. Not dedicate half of their waking life , their mental and physical prime,…

Wow, 250k a year to go to work 8-5 is “modern slavery”. On a bit of a high horse there.

Slavery is quite a loaded word, agreed.

My point is your time on this Earth is more valuable than $250k. It is not being a slave, but it is not being a free man either.

There are people in abject poverty that do not have to ask for permission to anyone to spend two weeks doing whatever they want, or to end the day early today.

I do not believe freedom is one-dimensional, on one side the Egyptian slave, on the other, the FAANG engineer. The latter has only a theoretical ownership of their time, but in reality, to keep a roof over their head, society pretty much favours only one choice: As much time as you can give, for as little money as you would take.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#27

Post by moffkalast »

charlie0 wrote: post #18
atleastoptimal wrote: post #2

More importantly, I think, with AI automation coming in full force, we need to decouple one's working hours with their right to live a comfortable life, especially for the lower and middle class.

I don't think this is going to happen. Increases in productivity eventually lead to race to the bottom in terms of prices. Which means whoever owns the means of production are not incentivized at all to just let their workers work less. The demands of workers will stay the same, if not increase because of lowering barriers to entry on the supply side of job seekers. I wish we as a society would just accept less work…

So in short, seize the means of automation.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#28

Post by candiddevmike »

greymalik wrote: post #15
wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

More code isn’t better. As an engineering manager I don’t want 5x as many lines of code. I want the code you work on to be solving the right problems. Figuring out what the right problems and solutions are and making sure everyone on the team understands them is why you’re in meetings.

Very rarely does that happen during meetings, in my experience it happens async during RFCs, pull requests, and chat conversations. Fostering async communication is slow productivity to me, and it results in better outcomes than forcing decisions in meetings.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#29

Post by rozap »

wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

I halfway agree, but I think at some point most people hit diminishing returns. I went from a regular job at a medium large company (though I didn't have 4 hours of meetings each day...) to a job where there are 4 people and none of the software ceremony. I definitely produce a lot more code, but I found that the limiting factor is that writing code is just more mentally draining than sitting in meetings which aren't productive. I get more done quicker, but hit a wall sooner. Fortunately there's no pressure to fill up the rest of the day with fluff just to maintain the illusion of productivity. Overall it's a huge win, but I don't think it's totally linear for me.

Re: It’s time to embrace slow productivity (2022)

#30

Post by srcreigh »

greymalik wrote: post #15
wonderwonder wrote: post #8

Its the lack of consecutive days off, 2 is not enough. 3 would really be a change. I bet I would accomplish just as much during the week as I do now, workplaces would just have to reduce the number of useless meetings. I spend 4 - 5 hours a day in meetings and am still expected to deliver actual code. Kill the meetings, my code generation would be through the roof. There are several things wrong with the American kno…

More code isn’t better. As an engineering manager I don’t want 5x as many lines of code. I want the code you work on to be solving the right problems. Figuring out what the right problems and solutions are and making sure everyone on the team understands them is why you’re in meetings.

This isn’t really what tends to happen in meetings ime. Usually the problem is well understood and the meetings are spent with architecture types micromanaging the implementation of the solution.
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