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How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

blog.everstrike.io

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Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#21

Post by sroussey »

ourmandave wrote: post #10
hippich wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First time hearing about Zero coupon bonds and Perpetual bonds... Nonetheless, wouldn't author's description of perpetual zero coupon bond apply to many (most? all?) fiat currencies as well, since these are not really backed by anything anymore?

From OP link: The value of cryptocurrencies, in spite of a collapse in value, is stopped from falling to their natural value, i.e. zero, by a combination of market manipulation, investor ignorance and a tsunami of lies on social media from those paid to promote these worthless frauds. Which isn't how the US government backing the USD works at all.

The US backs it’s currency will a military.

Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#22

Post by vikramkr »

redandblack wrote: post #11
microtherion wrote: post #3

I was reminded of the characterization of cryptocurrencies as "Perpetual Zero Coupon Bonds": https://martincwwalker.medium.com/impossible-finance-the-per...

All non-dividend paying stocks are zero-coupon perpetual bonds anyway. Nothing new about it

Stocks are distinct from bonds, they're an ownership stake in a business so dividends are only a small component of their value. Share buybacks, liquidity events like exits, voting rights, etc all feed into value. Stock buybacks in particular can have tax advantages over dividends leading to companies like apple favoring them as a way of distributing value to shareholders. And the the terms of a stock aren't set at stock issuance, since they represent shares in a business they can go from dividend paying to not dividend paying and back.

Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#23

Post by strgrd »

monero-xmr wrote: post #20
greggsy wrote: post #13

> “The only question is: Which exotic derivative will be the next? At Everstrike, we think it will be the everlasting option.” Wasn’t expecting that promo at the end, but who am I kidding, no one writes seriously about crypto without promoting something.

If you are an American and want to experiment with perps and aren’t confident with defi, you can become a Palauan resident and trade on Bybit (Dubai) and some other offshore exchanges legally. https://rns.id/

thanks monero-xmr, but if i wanted to gamble, i'd go to a casino. if i wanted to invest money, i'd buy SPY

Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#24

Post by monero-xmr »

strgrd wrote: post #23
monero-xmr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are an American and want to experiment with perps and aren’t confident with defi, you can become a Palauan resident and trade on Bybit (Dubai) and some other offshore exchanges legally. https://rns.id/

thanks monero-xmr, but if i wanted to gamble, i'd go to a casino. if i wanted to invest money, i'd buy SPY

Best investment I ever made was in my children. Second was crypto!

Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#25

Post by pcthrowaway »

monero-xmr wrote: post #24
strgrd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks monero-xmr, but if i wanted to gamble, i'd go to a casino. if i wanted to invest money, i'd buy SPY

Best investment I ever made was in my children. Second was crypto!

Shit, I never invested in children, everyone said it was a negative RoI.

Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#26

Post by Scoundreller »

strgrd wrote: post #23
monero-xmr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are an American and want to experiment with perps and aren’t confident with defi, you can become a Palauan resident and trade on Bybit (Dubai) and some other offshore exchanges legally. https://rns.id/

thanks monero-xmr, but if i wanted to gamble, i'd go to a casino. if i wanted to invest money, i'd buy SPY

Why not gamble on SPY?

Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#27

Post by monero-xmr »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #25
monero-xmr wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best investment I ever made was in my children. Second was crypto!

Shit, I never invested in children, everyone said it was a negative RoI.

Financially a giant loss, satisfaction to the moon!

Re: How an obscure OTC-traded derivative from the 80s took over crypto

#29

Post by vgatherps »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #17
smabie wrote: post #15

Perpetual futures are so nice compared to regular tradfi ones. Having to roll over your ES or NQ futures serves no purpose (and it's not like any other future besides the front month is liquid anyways) and is probably just a scam by CME to induce more trading volume. That being said regular futures do make sense for stuff like commodities.

Perpetual futures make sense for crypto because it has no physical presence and arguably no real uses beyond speculation. For commodities, for most of which finance and more specifically futures conrracts are really a secondary tool to smoothen the real world use cases, expiry and delivery etc. is a feature and not a bug.

Index futures are among the most liquid and highly traded instruments and have no natural expiries, a perpetual might make sense. There is a direct correspondence between the rates component of the index futures and all other naturally expiring instruments (options, bonds, commodity futures) so there’s an angle of “yet another weird rates product everyone has to care about” if you add perps.
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