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Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

dywypi.org

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Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#21
post #14
post #11

I've had a few Apple machines over the years (mainly as test machines and toys). I've had two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, an iMac and a couple of Mac Minis. I have nothing now other than a cheap second hand desktop PC (and some cash in pocket!): I agree with the build quality - they are good quality as in good materials and good fit. However, with my EE cap on, the designs themselves are bad and are quite dangerous. W…

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

LiPo batteries explode if you short them. Doesn't even need to be a very long short, or a very big one. They are incredibly sensitive to fast discharges. Water easily conducts well enough to cause problems, especially if it messes up another power conduit. It isn't guaranteed to catch fire, but the risk is certainly there, especially in such a thin form factor - you don't have much space in there for containment or fancy routing to reduce the chances of a short.

Again, it's not guaranteed, but Airs are rather more at risk than other laptops because of their construction.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#22

After two decades of Unix use, in 2000 I switched to Apple and OSX - the only reason I considered it was because of the design of the Titanium Powerbook, which I saw in those days as an amazing piece of hardware design, which - amazingly - gave me a Unix workstation in a fantastic portable package. I simply couldn't believe that Apple, of all people, were delivering what I'd wanted for years - a smart, functional, fu…

How is the power management? I run a linux (ubuntu) thinkpad for work, and while I find the OS pleasant to use, I have found the battery life dire compared to windows-using colleagues.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#23
Inactive memory is not an OS X specific, and it's actually implemented in a number of other OSes, including FreeBSD.

> when it's on disk, it definitely is not made active quickly.

If an application is unloaded then many operations need to be taken to initialize stuff, reading the disk for various stuff, processing some data, allocating memory (which will be zeored out, then initialized with whatever struct and data the program needs)

If an application memory is swapped, then reactivating that memory consists of:

1. paging memory back in RAM

2. there is no step two

Paging is key, as it means the data is in a format efficiently readable and that can be put back in memory at a very reduced cost. Compare this to reading random files entrenched in a filesystem and scattered on a disk, plus doing some more processing.

> First usually freed around 200MB of memory

Out of 4GB. Wow, what an incredible improvement! Pardon me while I go write a cron entry running that command every minute so that my system can stay in good shape!

> When arriving to work the first thing was to hit repair disk permissions

This is absolutely astonishing. Seriously, Repair Permissions is a glorified ch{mod,own} -R. Quiz time! Why do you thing it reduces the 'Inactive Memory'? Because it's hitting the disk. Hard. Actually every system file gets hit. And in doing so, those files make their way into the cache and the Inactive Memory gets properly evicted. So the supposedly non-functional memory management turns out to be perfectly functional after all.

> And of course this does not support installing Python, Ruby, Perl on any other software that has its own way of distributing software.

which is bullshit (although there's no Perl).

   $ brew install python
even gives you a distribute's easy_install out of the box. You can install Ruby the same way (and since it's 1.9 it includes rubygems) but I'd recommend using rbenv+ruby-build, which is also in the package list.

Apparently the author wants python/ruby/perl packages provided by the package manager, which might just be a bad idea given how bad the status of those packages is in Debian. One would be much better served with pip+virtualenv and rbenv/rvm+bundler.

There's a brew-pip if you really want to integrate

> And in case you mix up MacPorts and homebrew, you're deeply screwed.

How so? they live in completely different directory trees. As long as you don't screw up your PATHs or something they're oblivious to each other. I've had them living side by side for some time before dropping MacPorts without any issues.

> working command line tools

    $ brew install coreutils
But I'd hardly describe BSD utils as non-working (hint: I did not install coreutils yet I spend my days on the command line).

As for compile time, it's hardly a problem as Homebrew mitigates that (contrary to MacPorts) by not duplicating every library already available in the OS. Besides, the system (much like ABS on ArchLinux) is made to make you writing your own packages or tweaking an existing one a straightforward affair. Compare to creating a .deb properly, which is, ahem, non-trivial. Yes, it would be faster not building stuff (like Arch which brings the best of both worlds together) but hosting binary packages has a cost that skyrockets as you have more users (plus one would need to make binary builds for the various OSX versions, a problem that simply doesn't exist). What's more, having software compiled from the 'original' source instead of third party is interesting in a number of ways, including running vanilla software instead of the heavily patched ones of Debian.

I'm glad the author has found a place for him but going on such an uninformed rant is unfair.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#24
post #2

just tried purge on my macbook, and it really did freed some memory. never heard before about this command... any ideas why OS doesn't do it automatically from time to time by default? I agree that it doesn't make sense to use swap to move inactive memory.

Inactive memory is good for you. Purging it just means that the disk cache is gone and files have to be read back from disk next time you access them. The author of the article might have seen problems with swapfiles growing, but he certainly does not have the tools or experience needed to accurately find the cause of those problems. So I wouldn't trust what he says very much. If you have a situation where it seems l…

Yup, and he's fixing memory problems with "repair disk permissions", not sure how that works. But I would agree that sometimes the linux handling of memory is way better (but unfortunately I've been using linux for the last 15 years and saw some strange behavior there too).

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#25
post #23

Inactive memory is not an OS X specific, and it's actually implemented in a number of other OSes, including FreeBSD. > when it's on disk, it definitely is not made active quickly. If an application is unloaded then many operations need to be taken to initialize stuff, reading the disk for various stuff, processing some data, allocating memory (which will be zeored out, then initialized with whatever struct and data t…

I feel you are being unfair about the uninformed rant. Picking at a couple of things I know about:

1) I've tried installing both Macports and homebrew, and some utils did not work, as whichever got put in the path first, confused the other. I suppose I could have made a seperate symlink directory, for just the binaries I wanted.

2) I found 'brew install coreutils' broke some build scripts , which expected proper mac tools, if I put them all in path.

3) I find about 10% of the time I try to install something from brew, it fails to build. g++ 4.6 failed just 20 minutes ago. That is a real pain.

I can't comment on the memory, except that I find my 4GB of RAM seems to go much further when I dual-boot my macbook into Linux. It might happen to be the programs that I run.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#26
post #10
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that OpenSUSE is one of the best KDE distro's around.

Personally, I'm fond of Fedora's KDE offering as I explained the other day: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3561927 Again, not that there is any reason to leave Kubuntu if you're presently happy with what it offers you.

I've been using Fedora with KDE as my primary system for a year now. And after switching from f14 to f16 2 months ago I decided to leave KDE and try the gnome3 again (perhaps Unity on ubuntu). Why? Because KDE sucks. Ok, I should explain. KDE is great. So much better than gnome2 that people love for some very strange reason (but I guess some /same?:)/ people loved win95). I love its customizability. I like its unified feel across the apps. But out of the box feel is really bad. It looks bad, it works bad. I would say it's Fedora's problem as the KDE really is capable.. but still. Also, the apps are painful sometimes. But it's not different from GTK "suite" from what I've tried.

PS: It's my personal opinion of course. Maybe I'll switch back to KDE right after I try the Unity.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#27
post #14
post #11

I've had a few Apple machines over the years (mainly as test machines and toys). I've had two MacBooks, one MacBook Pro, an iMac and a couple of Mac Minis. I have nothing now other than a cheap second hand desktop PC (and some cash in pocket!): I agree with the build quality - they are good quality as in good materials and good fit. However, with my EE cap on, the designs themselves are bad and are quite dangerous. W…

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

No hyperbole. The design is simply dangerous.

One glass of water on the desk (not in the machine!). Capillary action sucked water around the seal on the base. It was turned over to remove the battery and the sucked up water rained on the logic board resulting in all sorts of crackling, smoke etc and one dead MacBook.

Being a qualified and experienced EE, I'm qualified to say that it's electronics 101 to be able to isolate power (like every other vendor allows).

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#28

After two decades of Unix use, in 2000 I switched to Apple and OSX - the only reason I considered it was because of the design of the Titanium Powerbook, which I saw in those days as an amazing piece of hardware design, which - amazingly - gave me a Unix workstation in a fantastic portable package. I simply couldn't believe that Apple, of all people, were delivering what I'd wanted for years - a smart, functional, fu…

How is the power management? I run a linux (ubuntu) thinkpad for work, and while I find the OS pleasant to use, I have found the battery life dire compared to windows-using colleagues.

My understanding is that much of this is due to regressions in the kernel. Some of the more recent 3.2 kernels are supposed to fix it.

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#29
post #21
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

LiPo batteries explode if you short them. Doesn't even need to be a very long short, or a very big one. They are incredibly sensitive to fast discharges. Water easily conducts well enough to cause problems, especially if it messes up another power conduit. It isn't guaranteed to catch fire, but the risk is certainly there, especially in such a thin form factor - you don't have much space in there for containment or f…

The battery is ok for direct exposure to water as it's well sealed but as you say the power output from them in short circuit is immense which results in fires if you can't isolate the supply. Water + high current = interesting :)

Re: Back on Linux (after one year of Apple and OS X)

#30
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I find it a difficult to believe that Apple would release a laptop that would catch on fire if you spilt a cup of coffee on it - I suspect your story has been sprinkled with a touch hyperbole. Evidence, please :)

FWIW I had a large glass of wine spilled all over my macbook with no long-term ill effects after the drying period.

Good for you. You must have been a lucky one.
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