Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update • Hacker News Board

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#21

Post by hedora » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:11 AM UTC

jhanschoo wrote: post #14

userbinator wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and thus, the next round of the cat-and-mouse game begins. Things like this will only make WINE's own compatibility and indistinguishability from Windows increase, so it's not all bad.

this is a game that Wine cannot win simply by virtue of the fact that one can do checksums to validate that Microsoft's non-free code isn't present in the Wine environment.

Intercept calls to those files and return the non free binary.

Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable, so this might not even be copyright infringement.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#22

Post by hedora » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:13 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #18

Time to move up from Roblox. If you're over 13, you're already on the way out of its demographic, anyway.

My kindergartener has only ever used wine though. Not sure he’s ready to switch to windows with all the adversarial malware in the base os, etc.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#23

Post by rendall » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:18 AM UTC

phendrenad2 wrote: post #11

Missing from the headline: This appears to be a temporary measure in their new beta client during testing of said client. It appears that they'll unblock wine when the client is out of beta.

This comment should be at the top.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#24

Post by somenameforme » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:23 AM UTC

phendrenad2 wrote: post #11

Missing from the headline: This appears to be a temporary measure in their new beta client during testing of said client. It appears that they'll unblock wine when the client is out of beta.

Actions speak infinitely louder than promises. And this is even more true when those actions are unpopular. Their claim doesn't even make any sense. If you don't want the telemetry of WINE users then you don't block them, you simply don't collect their telemetry, or you discard it.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#25

Post by TheDong » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:32 AM UTC

hedora wrote: post #21

jhanschoo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a game that Wine cannot win simply by virtue of the fact that one can do checksums to validate that Microsoft's non-free code isn't present in the Wine environment.

Intercept calls to those files and return the non free binary. Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable, so this might not even be copyright infringement.

> Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable

I'd appreciate a citation on that.

Just because I make "a copy of the lord of the rings, ripped in 1080p" a requirement to launch the game I make doesn't make a lord of the rings rip legally distributable.

Roblox can certainly require access to a complete copy of a copyrighted file in a windows installation (i.e. by requiring sending bytes from random offsets in it to their server, which could only be faked by having the whole file anyway), and I don't see how that can actually make that file anything but illegal to distribute.

If that did work, well, than I'd like to declare all copyright void since I require uploading an arbitrary copyrighted work to my site to login, so anyone with a copyrighted work can just claim it's for compatibility with my website and thus "not copyrightable".

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#26

Post by serf » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:40 AM UTC

ogurechny wrote: post #6

jxf wrote: post #2

Sounds like it's time to get familiar with the wine-staging options to hide wine-specific exports: https://github.com/Winetricks/winetricks/blob/b46dd63e024a16...

I doubt that any non-toy anti-cheat system can run on WINE and not notice that something isn't quite right.

i'm here to tell you, anecdotally at least, that it is quite often that easy.

These mechanisms are looking for certain environmental conditions, not the entire system state.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#27

Post by serf » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:43 AM UTC

TheDong wrote: post #25

hedora wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intercept calls to those files and return the non free binary. Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable, so this might not even be copyright infringement.

> Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable I'd appreciate a citation on that. Just because I make "a copy of the lord of the rings, ripped in 1080p" a requirement to launch the game I make doesn't make a lord of the rings rip legally distributable. Roblox can certainly require access to a complete copy of a copyrighted file in a windows installation (i.e. by requiring…

>, which could only be faked by having the whole file anyway)

that presumption is wrong.

if one was so inclined, and perhaps had a lawyer friend on-call, then one could scatter the copyright material over many files -- none of which constitute the entire copyrighted work -- for the sake of challenge response.

Driver copyright shenanigans have done such things in the past.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#28

Post by unaindz » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:43 AM UTC

serf wrote: post #26

ogurechny wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that any non-toy anti-cheat system can run on WINE and not notice that something isn't quite right.

i'm here to tell you, anecdotally at least, that it is quite often that easy. These mechanisms are looking for certain environmental conditions, not the entire system state.

And for the most part it's the same on KVM.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#29

Post by userbinator » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:51 AM UTC

TheDong wrote: post #25

hedora wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intercept calls to those files and return the non free binary. Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable, so this might not even be copyright infringement.

> Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable I'd appreciate a citation on that. Just because I make "a copy of the lord of the rings, ripped in 1080p" a requirement to launch the game I make doesn't make a lord of the rings rip legally distributable. Roblox can certainly require access to a complete copy of a copyrighted file in a windows installation (i.e. by requiring…

There is legal precedent for such:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexmark_International,_Inc._v.....

I require uploading an arbitrary copyrighted work to my site to login

The keyword that makes all the difference is "arbitrary".

Roblox can certainly require access to a complete copy of a copyrighted file in a windows installation (i.e. by requiring sending bytes from random offsets in it to their server, which could only be faked by having the whole file anyway)

Ironically, Microsoft offers the copyrighted files available in a Windows installation for free download, both in the form of complete ISOs and Windows Updates.

Re: Roblox intentionally blocking Linux with Wine in their new update

#30

Post by MereInterest » Mon, Apr 24, 2023, 3:51 AM UTC

TheDong wrote: post #25

hedora wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intercept calls to those files and return the non free binary. Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable, so this might not even be copyright infringement.

> Purely functional things used for compatibility lock outs are generally not copyrightable I'd appreciate a citation on that. Just because I make "a copy of the lord of the rings, ripped in 1080p" a requirement to launch the game I make doesn't make a lord of the rings rip legally distributable. Roblox can certainly require access to a complete copy of a copyrighted file in a windows installation (i.e. by requiring…

> I'd appreciate a citation on that.

Use of the Sega logo, which is protected under both copyright and trademark, was found to be fair use when used for interface compatibility.

https://m.openjurist.org/977/f2d/1510