Libreboot 20230423 • Hacker News Board

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#21

Post by newswasboring » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 3:15 PM UTC

LukeShu wrote: post #14

neilv wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This? https://libreboot.org/freedom-status.html I wouldn't call it drama. There's often important practical reasons to try to minimize closed parts of the firmware. See also the high-security / high-trustworthiness work of Purism.

There's definitely drama around it. There's drama around whether devices seeking RYF certification can use newer (blob-allowing) versions of Libreboot, even if the devices has a board for which Libreboot doesn't use blobs. There's drama around whether FSDG-following GNU/Linux distros can still ship the Libreboot tools. The page https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html does a better job of showing how the Libreboot's po…

I'm curious why you call it drama and not debate. Every open source project is constantly debating new ideas. Calling something drama has a connotation of another layer of ego.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#22

Post by Szpadel » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 3:17 PM UTC

remram wrote: post #15

I have a lot of trouble reading it a "libre boot" rather than "lib reboot". The lib prefix is so common in open-source/Linux.

I never noticed that before, now I cannot unsee it

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#23

Post by rhn_mk1 » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 3:36 PM UTC

newswasboring wrote: post #11

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reddit discussion is severely out of date.

[flagged]

It's the opposite. Libreboot removes parts of coreboot which don't fit into its philosophy.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#24

Post by Kwpolska » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 3:51 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #19

newswasboring wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

These comments are usually downvoted but they're usually quite useful. Thanks.

I want to see opinions and answers from actual humans, not from a Random Bullshit Generator. If I wanted to see the Random Bullshit Generator’s opinion, I would have asked it myself.

> Libreboot is a downstream distribution (or fork) of coreboot which doesn’t allow non-free binaries (“blobs”)

Libreboot does allow some blobs, if there is no good alternative, and because a mostly-free board is better than a completely non-free board according to their policy: https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html

> and only supports a small number of devices, the vast majority of which are over 10 years old.

That one’s probably accurate.

> Libreboot also doesn’t “keep track” with coreboot; its most recent release is from mid-2016, whereas coreboot is updated regularly.

The link we’re commenting on leads to a release announcement. The linked announcement mentions the previous release was 10 days ago. There was a gap in libreboot releases between September 2016 and May 2021, so the Random Bullshit Generator’s response is outdated by 2 years.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#25

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 3:53 PM UTC

newswasboring wrote: post #21

LukeShu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely drama around it. There's drama around whether devices seeking RYF certification can use newer (blob-allowing) versions of Libreboot, even if the devices has a board for which Libreboot doesn't use blobs. There's drama around whether FSDG-following GNU/Linux distros can still ship the Libreboot tools. The page https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html does a better job of showing how the Libreboot's po…

I'm curious why you call it drama and not debate. Every open source project is constantly debating new ideas. Calling something drama has a connotation of another layer of ego.

A debate can have an answer; this is two groups with mutually exclusive subjective views.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#26

Post by newswasboring » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 4:10 PM UTC

Kwpolska wrote: post #24

renewiltord wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These comments are usually downvoted but they're usually quite useful. Thanks.

I want to see opinions and answers from actual humans, not from a Random Bullshit Generator. If I wanted to see the Random Bullshit Generator’s opinion, I would have asked it myself. > Libreboot is a downstream distribution (or fork) of coreboot which doesn’t allow non-free binaries (“blobs”) Libreboot does allow some blobs, if there is no good alternative, and because a mostly-free board is better than a completely…

[flagged]

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#27

Post by newswasboring » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 4:13 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #25

newswasboring wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you call it drama and not debate. Every open source project is constantly debating new ideas. Calling something drama has a connotation of another layer of ego.

A debate can have an answer; this is two groups with mutually exclusive subjective views.

But you can absolutely debate subjective issues. We do that all the time when discussing policies.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#28

Post by Kwpolska » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

newswasboring wrote: post #26

Kwpolska wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to see opinions and answers from actual humans, not from a Random Bullshit Generator. If I wanted to see the Random Bullshit Generator’s opinion, I would have asked it myself. > Libreboot is a downstream distribution (or fork) of coreboot which doesn’t allow non-free binaries (“blobs”) Libreboot does allow some blobs, if there is no good alternative, and because a mostly-free board is better than a completely…

[flagged]

Fortunately, Random Bullshit Generators do not have feelings, and will not get hurt by my use of the (IMO more appropriate) term to refer to them. They are overhyped, and I do not think that posting their output in HN comments leads to positive and thoughtful discussions.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#29

Post by LukeShu » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

newswasboring wrote: post #21

LukeShu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely drama around it. There's drama around whether devices seeking RYF certification can use newer (blob-allowing) versions of Libreboot, even if the devices has a board for which Libreboot doesn't use blobs. There's drama around whether FSDG-following GNU/Linux distros can still ship the Libreboot tools. The page https://libreboot.org/news/policy.html does a better job of showing how the Libreboot's po…

I'm curious why you call it drama and not debate. Every open source project is constantly debating new ideas. Calling something drama has a connotation of another layer of ego.

When there's a fork and disagreement over who "owns" the name, that's drama.

Re: Libreboot 20230423

#30

Post by LukeShu » Sun, Apr 23, 2023, 4:23 PM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #25

newswasboring wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you call it drama and not debate. Every open source project is constantly debating new ideas. Calling something drama has a connotation of another layer of ego.

A debate can have an answer; this is two groups with mutually exclusive subjective views.

But I would say that there is an answer here. Given the mutually-agreed on objective of protecting/creating-a-distribution-that-respects the users' rights to the 4 freedoms as defined by the FSF, there is an answer as to which policy best serves that goal.

Libreboot has said "given that goal, we believe that the FSF's RYF and FSDG policies are problematic and partially undermine the goal", and the FSF has said "no, we believe that our RYF and FSDG policies are the best policies at this point in time, and Libreboot's non-compliance with those policies partially undermines the goal". But both sides agree on the goal.