Are these like javascript promises or goroutines?
Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
21–30 of 555 posts
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#22So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…
My experience in small companies told me that younger generation didn’t choose Go because Go is objectively better than Java, but because they actively hate Java for it being out of fashion.
Irrational Fear of Java is one of the most confusing things among startup stage companies.
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#23So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…
> So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? No. Go does containerized microservices better because of its lower memory footprint. If you can use GraalVM then that might not matter.
This is based on outdated advice.
Java stacks like Quarkus [1] have memory as low as 12MB and JVMs like OpenJ9 natively support CRIU for instant startup.
[2] https://blog.openj9.org/2022/10/14/openj9-criu-support-a-loo...
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#24So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…
Java will always have Java syntax, though. And its runtime will remain rather heavy compared to language implementations that compile down to machine code. Go's benefit's will probably always be there.
Java can be taught to 2-year olds so Go seems to have a slight disadvantage there. ;)
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#25So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…
As someone who recently developed in Java (for developing a Jenkins plugin) after not having done so for a long time (~15 years), I feel that Java nowadays is technologically quite interesting with many interesting libraries and tooling. IDE code navigation and debugging support is excellent.
At the same time, the ecosystem can feel messy and overwhelming. There are multiple @Nonnull annotation libraries and it's not clear what the difference is. There are many different testing libraries (some TDD, some BDD) but it seems everybody picks a different one. There are multiple advanced concurrency libraries and concepts, but again not much consensus and everybody uses a different one. Lots of deprecations all over the place.
It's even worse in the Jenkins-specific ecosystem where nearly every plugin uses some deprecated aspect of either Java or Jenkins, and hunting for what the "right" way is supposed to be is a bit of a daunting task.
There are like 20 different JDKs, not sure why.
On the other hand, startup time and memory usage still seems to be a big issue. Starting Jenkins takes forever even with JVM in client mode and with bytecode verification disabled. And when started it uses a huge amount of memory. To date I've never seen one non-hello-world Java app that isn't like that.
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#26So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…
while Java originated the billion dollar mistake By the "billion dollar mistake", are you referring to null references [1]? But null references were introduced in 1965 in Algol, by Tony Hoare. They long predate Java. [1]: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Bill...
I don't think it's about the existence of null references, but how Java is using them. Null references can be a useful, e.g. Kotlin has converted them to be useful (with nullable types).
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#27So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…
while Java originated the billion dollar mistake By the "billion dollar mistake", are you referring to null references [1]? But null references were introduced in 1965 in Algol, by Tony Hoare. They long predate Java. [1]: https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Null-References-The-Bill...
Speaking of Go and Algol...
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#28I haven't touched Java since school and never worked in it professionally and that's been well over a decade. Is there a resource that people recommend that gives a good introduction to modern Java? Preferably succinct but doesn't need to be.
Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#29Re: Virtual Threads Arrive in JDK 21, Ushering a New Era of Concurrency
#30So with this, the last thing Go had going for it over Java is gone, right? Java has an obviously better type system, while Java originated the billion dollar mistake, Java also at this point has much better practices around handling nulls than Go, Java's jars are more portable than go's binaries, Java's GC performs better, Java has a more mature ecosystem and more libraries... Java has better IDE support and comparab…
What's the modern startup time of JARs? I haven't used Java in a long time, but long ago, the relatively slow startup time was a dealbraker for using java to write small tools.