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Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

willbrownsberger.com

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#21
This is why I couple my heat pump operation to solar output from my panels. Any time I can fully self power it is a 100% win. During the darkest and coldest months however, the existing gas boiler takes the lead.

My heat pump is 5 years old and has never leaked refrigerant. I also collect the condensate for the gardens.

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#22
post #9

Anytime you have a technology that is marketed ubiquitously as if it's a silver bullet solution, you are going to have disappointed users and implementations that under deliver. Of course it's extremely important to switch people to electrified heating systems, regardless of their efficiency. However it's a little disingenuous to pretend there is nothing but upside here. The upside is for humanity as a whole; for ind…

>> Of course it's extremely important to switch people to electrified heating systems, regardless of their efficiency. You could use a gas fired heat pump. It won't work as an air conditioner, but it won't stress the grid and could even work when the power goes out.

you are better of adding with a gas plant to the grid, which can be up to 84% efficient (if you reuse the heat generated by the turbine as well)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_cycle_power_plant

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#23
post #3

It seems ridiculous that refrigerator leaks are not "an uncommon occurrence". Does anyone have any insight into why this would be?

Because flare fittings are a concession to make install cheaper, not better. R410a and other similar refrigerants are very high pressure, and the fittings undergo significant thermal cycles. Flared copper tube is a bad design choice. IMO, going back to brazed tubing connections is the most rational choice.

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#24
post #10

> I do not fault the particular pump that we bought or our installers who were careful and professional. Apparently, however, we lack good rules of thumb to predict how a pump will perform in a particular installation. A 278% estimation turning out as 150% real world performance, certainly was not done very carefully.

Why do you think the manufacturers mislabeled efficiency has any relevance to how the installation team performed?

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#25
post #15

I wonder if we will ever see them switch to R-1234YF refrigerant. "While R-134a has a Global Warming Potential of 1300, R-1234yf’s GWP is less than 1." The only issue is the higher pressures and the fact that it's somewhat flammable might be why. I will say, my heat pump dryer, while it has removed some buttons from shirts, has exceeded my expectations on energy usage. It's night and day compared to my toaster I had…

In your experience, does your heat pump dryer actually dry in a similar amount of time to a conventional electric dryer?

My heat pump drier dries a full load (8 kg) of cotton in about 4 hours. My only other experience was a huge, old unit when I lived in North America and I don't really remember if it was faster, but it absolutely destroyed any piece of cloth that wasn't resistant enough, especially anything with elastics.

My current one is as gentle as air drying, no destruction at all.

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#26
post #15

I wonder if we will ever see them switch to R-1234YF refrigerant. "While R-134a has a Global Warming Potential of 1300, R-1234yf’s GWP is less than 1." The only issue is the higher pressures and the fact that it's somewhat flammable might be why. I will say, my heat pump dryer, while it has removed some buttons from shirts, has exceeded my expectations on energy usage. It's night and day compared to my toaster I had…

In your experience, does your heat pump dryer actually dry in a similar amount of time to a conventional electric dryer?

Nope, the toaster had a full load done in like an hour. The heat pump is like 3 hours. But the difference is the heat pump doesn't absolutely destroy my clothes. I'm noticing how much longer my clothes are lasting since switching. It's also so much quieter than the electric.

If you are the type of person who goes "oh crap I need to wash every piece of clothing RIGHT NOW" then heat pump isn't for you because of the time penalty.

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#27
If I were building new in the north, ground-loop heat pumps make more sense, less maintenance, less trying to eek out a temperature difference. You will likely already have the equipment on-site for grading and foundation work. No need to remove material permanently for it…

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#28

I wonder if we will ever see them switch to R-1234YF refrigerant. "While R-134a has a Global Warming Potential of 1300, R-1234yf’s GWP is less than 1." The only issue is the higher pressures and the fact that it's somewhat flammable might be why. I will say, my heat pump dryer, while it has removed some buttons from shirts, has exceeded my expectations on energy usage. It's night and day compared to my toaster I had…

The new, (bio-)propane refigerated ones (R290) are pretty good and work well with the radiators most Europeans have at home. They are reliably capable of emitting up to 75C outlet water. At the moment they are approx. 1.5-2x more expensive, I hope that will come down somewhat. I really hope after a few years a good heatpump will reach cost parity with a good boiler (installation that is).

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#29

I wonder if we will ever see them switch to R-1234YF refrigerant. "While R-134a has a Global Warming Potential of 1300, R-1234yf’s GWP is less than 1." The only issue is the higher pressures and the fact that it's somewhat flammable might be why. I will say, my heat pump dryer, while it has removed some buttons from shirts, has exceeded my expectations on energy usage. It's night and day compared to my toaster I had…

[deleted]

Re: Heat pump disappointment for climate-minded Massachusetts state senator

#30
post #9

Anytime you have a technology that is marketed ubiquitously as if it's a silver bullet solution, you are going to have disappointed users and implementations that under deliver. Of course it's extremely important to switch people to electrified heating systems, regardless of their efficiency. However it's a little disingenuous to pretend there is nothing but upside here. The upside is for humanity as a whole; for ind…

>> Of course it's extremely important to switch people to electrified heating systems, regardless of their efficiency. You could use a gas fired heat pump. It won't work as an air conditioner, but it won't stress the grid and could even work when the power goes out.

>and could even work when the power goes out.

AFAIK gas furnaces still need electricity for the fans to work. When you have no electricity you at best have a glorified fireplace. It's probably going to be a worse than a regular fireplace because it's not designed to output heat to its surroundings.

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