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The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

techcommunity.microsoft.com

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Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#21

Post by mablopoule »

bobolino123 wrote: post #18
soundnote wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their tools are legitimately good, IME - esp. Teams is mainly just heavy, not bad. Ben Thompson of Stratechery puts it well: This is where Teams thrives: if you fully commit to the Microsoft ecosystem, one app combines your contacts, conversations, phone calls, access to files, 3rd-party applications, in a way that “just works”; I explained my personal experience with Teams in a December 2018 Daily Update: "Here’s th…

The chat is really bad (compared to Discord) and the indicators don't refresh sometimes.

Are you using it on linux ? Because I too experience the indicator that won't refresh, but only through ArchLinux/Firefox. No problem whatsoever on Windows 10.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#22

Post by sfifs »

carlycue wrote: post #5

This is anecdotal evidence but I have never seen a person use Microsoft 365 suite of Apps in real life. It’s always Google web apps and Slack. Who is this mysterious Microsoft customer that has made them the 2nd most valuable company in the world?

Almost the entire Fortune 500 uses Microsoft. These companies there have tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of employees (I work in one of the medium ones with 100k)

I would bet the largest org on Google Apps is Google itself

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#23

Post by pelagicAustral »

favsq wrote: post #3

I have seen the comparison video and I am unimpressed. A company with the legacy in software development that Microsoft has should be ashamed of how slow both versions load and how jittery everything seems. It is 2023, how can they find it acceptable that loading is so slow that UI elements appear one by one? That's something I expect from a computer running Windows 95 on a 386DX.

You probably wouldn't get performance this bad back in 95 since we used to build native apps for the desktop. Unlike these days were a bunch of dingbats are pushing the js agenda beyond the limits of whats reasonable acceptable.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#24

Post by Nextgrid »

soundnote wrote: post #17
Nextgrid wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has no chance in the tech/startup world where workers have enough power to reject garbage solutions. Their market is big legacy companies where tools aren't chosen based on merit (instead chosen on buzzwords, kickbacks or money under the table) and where the day-to-day users of those tools don't have the power to demand change.

Their tools are legitimately good, IME - esp. Teams is mainly just heavy, not bad. Ben Thompson of Stratechery puts it well: This is where Teams thrives: if you fully commit to the Microsoft ecosystem, one app combines your contacts, conversations, phone calls, access to files, 3rd-party applications, in a way that “just works”; I explained my personal experience with Teams in a December 2018 Daily Update: "Here’s th…

> particularly for the non-tech workers that are in fact most of the market

I would say the real reason it "works" for non-tech workers is because they don't have enough bargaining power to reject crap such as Teams and similar Microsoft software, and/or haven't had the chance to try out anything else and don't know what an actually good experience is, while tech workers generally do and reject it as a result (that's why this garbage is non-existent in startups and tech-centric companies).

Spinning it as a tool for non-tech workers is a nice cop-out from the truth which is that non-tech workers merely lack the political power needed to reject this shit (and similar - Windows, etc) just like the vast majority of tech workers do. If those non-tech workers were given a choice, Microsoft's marketshare would significantly shrink overnight.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#25

Post by sfifs »

Nextgrid wrote: post #24
soundnote wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their tools are legitimately good, IME - esp. Teams is mainly just heavy, not bad. Ben Thompson of Stratechery puts it well: This is where Teams thrives: if you fully commit to the Microsoft ecosystem, one app combines your contacts, conversations, phone calls, access to files, 3rd-party applications, in a way that “just works”; I explained my personal experience with Teams in a December 2018 Daily Update: "Here’s th…

> particularly for the non-tech workers that are in fact most of the market I would say the real reason it "works" for non-tech workers is because they don't have enough bargaining power to reject crap such as Teams and similar Microsoft software, and/or haven't had the chance to try out anything else and don't know what an actually good experience is, while tech workers generally do and reject it as a result (that's…

I actually have tried and unfortunately nothing beats Excel - PowerPoint. OneDrive added a killer feature a few years ago in auto Documents and Desktop backup which makes transitioning computers or using temp laptops painless - no more "re-imaging" and massive workload reduction for Tech suppprt. I assume you could now do this in DropBox as well but it wasn't so before OneDrive made this the default. Outlook client is also the only polished desktop mail client (ie. some mail is actally stored offline on laptop and you can pull up old emails on a flight or when you have poor connectivity) and I understand the server makes compliance easier.

Enterprises don't go Microsoft Suite because they are primarily good enough. In some categories, there is virtually no competiton and in others, the good enough is tolerable.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#26

Post by pjmlp »

Nextgrid wrote: post #8
favsq wrote: post #3

I have seen the comparison video and I am unimpressed. A company with the legacy in software development that Microsoft has should be ashamed of how slow both versions load and how jittery everything seems. It is 2023, how can they find it acceptable that loading is so slow that UI elements appear one by one? That's something I expect from a computer running Windows 95 on a 386DX.

> A company with the legacy in software development that Microsoft has should be ashamed of how slow both versions load and how jittery everything seems. That ship sailed long ago after they excreted the turd that is Windows 8 and its successors.

UWP was actually alright, alongside .NET Native and C++/CX, however they fully borked the whole development experience how to adopt them.

Advise from a recovering UWP advocate, stay away from Windows Runtime (WinUI and WinAppSDK) as much as possible.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#27

Post by johnwalkr »

soundnote wrote: post #17
Nextgrid wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has no chance in the tech/startup world where workers have enough power to reject garbage solutions. Their market is big legacy companies where tools aren't chosen based on merit (instead chosen on buzzwords, kickbacks or money under the table) and where the day-to-day users of those tools don't have the power to demand change.

Their tools are legitimately good, IME - esp. Teams is mainly just heavy, not bad. Ben Thompson of Stratechery puts it well: This is where Teams thrives: if you fully commit to the Microsoft ecosystem, one app combines your contacts, conversations, phone calls, access to files, 3rd-party applications, in a way that “just works”; I explained my personal experience with Teams in a December 2018 Daily Update: "Here’s th…

That’s from 2018. At that time Office 365 was really janky for collaboration. It works well now though.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#28

Post by johnwalkr »

carlycue wrote: post #5

This is anecdotal evidence but I have never seen a person use Microsoft 365 suite of Apps in real life. It’s always Google web apps and Slack. Who is this mysterious Microsoft customer that has made them the 2nd most valuable company in the world?

Anecdotally I don’t know any company in my line of work that hasn’t eventually switched from Google web apps to MS, and also then switched from slack to teams.

At some point, there is always experienced people hired that “need” office, then a period of confusion and duplicated out of synch files, followed by a decision to switch everyone to MS.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#29

Post by 72deluxe »

pelagicAustral wrote: post #23
favsq wrote: post #3

I have seen the comparison video and I am unimpressed. A company with the legacy in software development that Microsoft has should be ashamed of how slow both versions load and how jittery everything seems. It is 2023, how can they find it acceptable that loading is so slow that UI elements appear one by one? That's something I expect from a computer running Windows 95 on a 386DX.

You probably wouldn't get performance this bad back in 95 since we used to build native apps for the desktop. Unlike these days were a bunch of dingbats are pushing the js agenda beyond the limits of whats reasonable acceptable.

This is an excellent summary of the problem. The sad thing is that most users consider this perfectly normal and acceptable, and even users who have used computers for 30+ years seem to think these sluggish, crap "apps" are perfectly acceptable. It's bonkers.

Re: The new Microsoft Teams, now in preview

#30

Post by 72deluxe »

favsq wrote: post #3

I have seen the comparison video and I am unimpressed. A company with the legacy in software development that Microsoft has should be ashamed of how slow both versions load and how jittery everything seems. It is 2023, how can they find it acceptable that loading is so slow that UI elements appear one by one? That's something I expect from a computer running Windows 95 on a 386DX.

Yes I was shocked that they thought a 9.1 second launch time was good?! How long did MSN Messenger take to launch back on a Pentium 1?
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