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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#21

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sircastor wrote: post #18

I heard on a podcast yesterday a suggestion that the reason the intelligence community doesn't like TikTok is that, unlike with Twitter, Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, etc, they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want. If there's one thing the intelligence community hates, it's not getting the data they want. Back in the previous administration, I figured this was all a temper-tantrum being t…

> they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want

Of course they can. Bytedance is keeping American TikTok data in the U.S. The problem is that it's also filtering out to China.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#22

Post by layer8 »

gretch wrote: post #7
humanistbot wrote: post #3

If the concern is privacy and security, which apply to all social media platforms, then why not pass actual privacy and security laws that would apply equally to all social media platforms, regardless of who currently owns it or may own it in the future?

That's not what the concern of the bill is and it's completely transparent. Just read the first 2 pages of the bill and you can see the concern is, in the words of the bill, a "foreign adversary" and their ability to "sabotage or subversion of the design, integrity, manufacturing, production, distribution, installation, operation, or maintenance of information and communications technology products and services in th…

What does the Pacific have to do with that? I’m sure it would be the same if the adversaries were cross-Atlantic.

I’m finding the wording strange because the US arguably has more cross-Pacific allies than adversaries.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#23

Post by abeppu »

So, they're clearly trying to describe what they're doing in general terms. I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder if that's partly a constitutional matter -- just going after TikTok by name based on a knowledge of _past_ access to American data by staff in China would sound like an ex post facto law. So they have to frame it as being about a class of services with relationships to a group of foreign adversaries. But then are there other companies that might fall afoul of this? Yandex?

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#24

Post by qbasic_forever »

sircastor wrote: post #18

I heard on a podcast yesterday a suggestion that the reason the intelligence community doesn't like TikTok is that, unlike with Twitter, Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, etc, they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want. If there's one thing the intelligence community hates, it's not getting the data they want. Back in the previous administration, I figured this was all a temper-tantrum being t…

TikTok has a US business presence and definitely can be subpoenaed for information.

This is not something you have to speculate about, they clearly outline the process for law enforcement to get information: https://www.tiktok.com/legal/page/global/law-enforcement/en

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#25

Post by Gigachad »

charlieflowers wrote: post #20
gretch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the concern of the bill is and it's completely transparent. Just read the first 2 pages of the bill and you can see the concern is, in the words of the bill, a "foreign adversary" and their ability to "sabotage or subversion of the design, integrity, manufacturing, production, distribution, installation, operation, or maintenance of information and communications technology products and services in th…

The real concerns, in order of importance, are: 1. This is a way of getting memes to the masses that we (the US political establishment) can't fully control. 2. Meta and others are getting their asses kicked revenue-wise by Tik Tok. Like any business, they'd use anything they could to fight back. Turns out they can use China fear mongering, so they are. 3. (Added) Believe it or not, there's nationalistic pride here.…

When the memes involve destroying the school bathrooms and stealing cars. It's probably worth considering what control is had over it.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#26

Post by silisili »

breck wrote: post #9

1) I understand that the CCP bans sites and apps. Let's not sink to their level. (Instead, let's build more and more technologies to enable their people to get around said bans). 2) This is embarrassing. You don't like TikTok? Man up and compete. Don't ban it. 3) The complexity in this bills makes it reak of corruption. There will be winners and losers in this bill. The losers we can bet are 99% of the population.

Re: 1 and 2, I'm not sure this is as tit-for-tat. China has a -lot- of business regulations unfair to outsiders that the US doesn't and hasn't retaliated much on, even if it puts us on uneven grounds so to speak. And it's not like TikTok is so advanced and the US can't compete so we're banning it. There are many apps from foreign countries which are popular and not banned. It's a fear, legitimate or not, about data access and data harvesting and potential device control to what's becoming a direct adversary.

Re: 3, can't argue there.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#27

Post by reb »

So we can just calling time-of-death on the United States' social tech dominance now, right?

Domestic tech companies shamelessly sold access to American users for manipulation by "foreign adversaries" for years, made billions, suffered no lasting consequences. Then Chinese Vine walks in, smokes everybody else in ~24 months, the mad South African buys and destroys Twitter, and Mark toddles off the cliff of irrelevance with a social network in each pocket and an Oculus strapped to his face.

I guess it was fun while it lasted.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#28

Post by justapassenger »

sircastor wrote: post #18

I heard on a podcast yesterday a suggestion that the reason the intelligence community doesn't like TikTok is that, unlike with Twitter, Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, etc, they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want. If there's one thing the intelligence community hates, it's not getting the data they want. Back in the previous administration, I figured this was all a temper-tantrum being t…

You know what's the thing intelligence community hates even more? Giving data on the silver plate to the adversaries.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#29

Post by joshuaissac »

sircastor wrote: post #18

I heard on a podcast yesterday a suggestion that the reason the intelligence community doesn't like TikTok is that, unlike with Twitter, Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon, etc, they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want. If there's one thing the intelligence community hates, it's not getting the data they want. Back in the previous administration, I figured this was all a temper-tantrum being t…

> they can't just hand a warrant over to ByteDance get the data they want

Are there any examples of ByteDance refusing to hand over data in response to a warrant?

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#30

Post by ramenmeal »

whythre wrote: post #19
breck wrote: post #9

1) I understand that the CCP bans sites and apps. Let's not sink to their level. (Instead, let's build more and more technologies to enable their people to get around said bans). 2) This is embarrassing. You don't like TikTok? Man up and compete. Don't ban it. 3) The complexity in this bills makes it reak of corruption. There will be winners and losers in this bill. The losers we can bet are 99% of the population.

I am fine with banning what is, effectively, a Chinese psyop marketed as a social media app. I don’t really think we should be competing to make the most addictive doomscroller possible. However, I do agree about point 3, wholeheartedly. This makes it seem like envy, where our government is salivating at the prospect of doing this themselves under the guise of protecting us from foreign powers.

> a Chinese psyop marketed as a social media app

Do you personally use tiktok?

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