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Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

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Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Smearing him as a promoter of pseudo-scientific theories without articulating your rationale is frankly weak-sauce. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Pseudoarchaeolo... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Orion_correlati... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#The_Message_of_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#Atlantis_Reborn... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock#An…

The Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis [1], which has a growing body of evidence to support it, if true, would cause a great deal of embarrassment to mainstream archeologists. Is it possible that this is the reason they seek to smear Graham Hancock as a pseudo-archeologist? Notably, Hancock isn’t the only one to inquire about the Orion’s Belt and the fact that the pyramids in Egypt follow an identical orientation. Dr. C…

On the other hand, can one really keep an open mind to about any out-of-line idea just in case one of the thousands might turn out true? I'm not sure how this attitude could work, Hancock isn't even the looniest out there, so how do you decide where to draw the line? My question is not about one specific theory, but about the process: how exactly should one decide (for oneself, and for further investigation) which theories to "keep open mind" and which to classify to the bin?

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#23

It's a shame to think of all the ancient literature and rich history we've lost from these civilizations. I'm sure they had their Homers and Platos.

The worse part of it, compared with other lost civilizations is that we Europeans were responsible for it, in the process to make them "civilized".

How it could have turned much differently if there was a pacific coexistence with the conquistadores.

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#24
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is exciting about Graham Hancock an easily debunked promoter of pseudoscientific theories? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock

Graham Hancock is a journalist and a compelling science communicator. He has pursued theories outside the orthodox views of conventional archeology and, at least with the younger Dryas impact hypothesis, more and more evidence points to the fact that he may be right and conventional archeology may be wrong. Smearing him as a promoter of pseudo-scientific theories without articulating your rationale is frankly weak-sa…

Miniminuteman is a YouTuber who's currently debunking Graham Hancocks Netflix Series with some humour and guest interviews sprinkled through it. It's the first time I heard about Graham Hancock but it was enough for me to not be able to really take him seriously. His whole shtick seems to be to smear others and portray himself as a victim of "mainstream archeology" and just saying things without evidence which could be true if lots of established facts were to simply be ignored.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iCIZQX9i1A

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#25

It's a shame to think of all the ancient literature and rich history we've lost from these civilizations. I'm sure they had their Homers and Platos.

Well, maybe. But people still speak Mayan today and they've retained the legends and stories which are depicted on the iconography and actually written in the script, that's how we were able to decipher and read it.

I don't mean to sound like a cultural darwinist, but Athens and the library of Alexandria were razed to the ground and yet we still have Plato today because everybody who got their hands on his writings decided to read, translate, and disseminate it--there was no reason for the Romans to preserve his philosophy, no reason for the Arabian and Persian peoples either, and yet here we are today with complete versions of these texts translated into myriad languages over thousands of years, whereas other cultural properties, perhaps even from civilizations far larger, have simply disappeared, like the Egyptian materials for over a thousand years.

I don't think its wise to be too excited about these potential discoveries, because the reason why these cities can even be recognized and named as such by peoples (namely, us) living and analyzing them hundreds or thousands of years later is because of certain shared psychological and therefore social contexts. They may manifest in different forms, but the parallel developments of civilization across time, in different places, in completely separate contexts, is only on account of the shared, basic psychology of all humans, and in the end there will never be a remarkable difference between the kinds of texts produced by a predominantly agrarian society in the Ancient near-east, like the Egyptians, and a predominantly agrarian society in Mesoamerica.

In any kind of scientific endeavour it is never a good idea to be over-confident, nevertheless I think I have to claim that at this point in time anthropologists have developed a pretty good map of how human civilizations develop, from the totemic cults of tribal cultures to the cosmopolitan sprawls of modern urban centers: no matter where you look or what you examine, material cultures appear to progress in a basically similar manner. And, as I said above, there is no sense in trying to "recover" a lost culture, Mayan or otherwise; those cultures are still alive and well today--cultures never die, they just change, all we can do is create a map of those changes, we can never actually go back and fully understand how a people lived and experienced the world and how they expressed that experience in literature and philosophy, since our interpretation of that data will always be tainted by modern experience. But the map, and the contact with the Other, in the form of a "lost" culture, can show us that our modern experience is not the end all be all of the world, there will always be something in these cultures that escapes modern understanding, and I think that in that encounter something fruitful can be born, and therein lies the value of these sorts of investigations.

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#26
post #23

It's a shame to think of all the ancient literature and rich history we've lost from these civilizations. I'm sure they had their Homers and Platos.

The worse part of it, compared with other lost civilizations is that we Europeans were responsible for it, in the process to make them "civilized". How it could have turned much differently if there was a pacific coexistence with the conquistadores.

I know it is not an excuse but the European conquerors did the same other cultures have been doing to them for centuries. The "barbaric way of doing things" was common and was pretty extended for much part of the history.

European nations had been plagued by poverty, wars, killing, totalitarianism, witch hunting... For centuries, so when they reach the New World they continue to behave the same way they have been behaving until that point.

The only good part is that some countries were conquered and dominated by cultures that did not exterminated them. There was some mixing between peoples and the culture was enriched by that exchange.

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#27
post #23

It's a shame to think of all the ancient literature and rich history we've lost from these civilizations. I'm sure they had their Homers and Platos.

The worse part of it, compared with other lost civilizations is that we Europeans were responsible for it, in the process to make them "civilized". How it could have turned much differently if there was a pacific coexistence with the conquistadores.

Wikipedia disagrees with you:

> The Classic Maya collapse is one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in archaeology. [...] Over 80 different theories or variations of theories attempting to explain the Classic Maya collapse have been identified. From climate change to deforestation to lack of action by Maya kings, there is no universally accepted collapse theory, [...]

What's your source or authority for claiming it was definitively the conquistadores?

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worse part of it, compared with other lost civilizations is that we Europeans were responsible for it, in the process to make them "civilized". How it could have turned much differently if there was a pacific coexistence with the conquistadores.

Wikipedia disagrees with you: > The Classic Maya collapse is one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in archaeology. [...] Over 80 different theories or variations of theories attempting to explain the Classic Maya collapse have been identified. From climate change to deforestation to lack of action by Maya kings, there is no universally accepted collapse theory, [...] What's your source or authority for claiming it w…

If the dating estimates in the article are right, I think this might even have been caused by the prior Preclassic Collapse a few centuries before that. Remember, the dates given are a full two millenia before colonialism and a lot can happen to cause societies to change and history and knowledge to be lost over that timescale; our historical knowledge of much of Europe during this time period isn't exactly great either.

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#29
post #19

Let us bid adieu to that chunk of rain forest. First them archeologists will go scrounging, followed closely by the tourists. Do these 'historic' finds serve any purpose for our future generations? Or would those trees have served our children better?

Archeology studies past purpose, not future, and unless you're going to claim the entire science of history useless, better get used to the idea that some trees have to be sacrificed for science.

Some 14120 square miles of Guatemala is forested. While the 650 square miles of this archeological site represents a not-insignificant 4.6% of its forests, I doubt the archeologists are going to fell every tree and dig up every stump.

Since you care so much about trees, I have to ask, how many trees have you personally planted? How much money have you donated to tree-planting programs? Otherwise you're just virtue-signaling.

Re: Lidar Reveals 650-Square-Mile Maya Site Hidden Beneath Guatemalan Rain Forest

#30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worse part of it, compared with other lost civilizations is that we Europeans were responsible for it, in the process to make them "civilized". How it could have turned much differently if there was a pacific coexistence with the conquistadores.

Wikipedia disagrees with you: > The Classic Maya collapse is one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in archaeology. [...] Over 80 different theories or variations of theories attempting to explain the Classic Maya collapse have been identified. From climate change to deforestation to lack of action by Maya kings, there is no universally accepted collapse theory, [...] What's your source or authority for claiming it w…

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