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Statues of ‘old white men’ may need to be destroyed, Welsh government advises

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Statues of ‘old white men’ may need to be destroyed, Welsh government advises

#21
post #17
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, the power I'm talking about is about controlling people. There can be peace without needing to hold power against other people... unless they are the ones wanting the power. So for example, self-defense is not about power. > Even freedom itself can be defined as the degree to which one has power or not. That sounds like "power" in ability, as in to do something, which is not the same as the "power" used…

If one, or a group, or a nation or whatever..does not have power, then they only have freedom granted to them by actual power. That is not actual freedom, it is dependence on the benevolence of the powerful. Talking of power relations isn't really incorrect re: critical theory, probably where they go wrong is somehow pathologizing power itself. It is good to be powerful. It is bad to be weak. Often times one does hav…

> If one, or a group, or a nation or whatever..does not have power, then they only have freedom granted to them by actual power. That is not actual freedom, it is dependence on the benevolence of the powerful.

That's stretching the definition of freedom to absolute levels. So no one is truly free unless you have control of powerful armies. That would mean that throughout history only the very powerful have been truly free (which would be a bit cynical). I think that's not the case and I would claim that modern first-world countries have been consistently moving towards more freedom, and not just for the most powerful.

Power can be decentralized away from individuals into groups of people and institutions. Throughout history civilizations have constantly evolved in the direction of more decentralization of power, from dictators and kings to representative republics. Sure even now the power is concentrated at the top, but we could be close to another political breakthrough because of technology, which would further decentralize power, and allow more freedom.

> It is good to be powerful. It is bad to be weak.

By definition not everyone can be powerful at the same time, since power is measured by exerting it on someone else. This means that thinking it's all about power is the same as saying "the ends justify the means", since power is the end and everything else is determined by it.

> Often times one does have to apply power against other people, do you disagree?

Sure like in self-defense.

> But rules and laws and principles are broken all the time.. by whom? The powerful of course.

In today's day and age, it's usually the corrupt. We're supposed to know better, and we should have laws that prevent certain things, but of course there are always corrupt people trying to game the system. Power tends to corrupt, which is why decentralizing tends to help.

Re: Statues of ‘old white men’ may need to be destroyed, Welsh government advises

#22

Wouldn’t it be more effective to identify achievements by non-whites as opposed to eradicating achievements by whites. The former elevates everyone while the latter diminishes everyone. At some point, the world has to recognize that non-whites don’t need paternalistic care.

>Wouldn’t it be more effective to identify achievements by non-whites as opposed to eradicating achievements by whites.

There is an increased push to publicly acknowledge achievements of non-whites. I also dont think the crowd calling for teardowns would be against celebrating the objectively heroic whites that the ruling class spent significant energy to stop society from acknowledging due to the risk of their pro-justice/anti-establishment values being replicated.

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