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Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

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21–30 of 71 posts

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#21
post #4

Maybe I'm a callous bastard, but I genuinely don't get how he feels personally responsible here. It's a YouTube problem, not a M:tG problem or a him problem. He sounds genuinely distressed, and I feel for him, but I don't get why it causes him pain in this specific way. It's not your fault! And for what it's worth, it's not really YouTube's "fault" either. Remember, they're victims here too. They didn't invite this,…

Empathy and concern for people isn't a novel concept.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#22

We need a way to make commenting on social media cost something. As long as it is free there is no way humans can compete with bots. As nobody wants to spend real money on it we probably need some social credit system but one that is hard to game and probably rate limiting. We urgently need this otherwise AI will take over the world by dominating the social networks.

Isn’t this sort of what Twitter is trying with the $8/month thing? Forcing a cost to increase the barrier to posting as well as tie it to a human to go after when they do bad stuff.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#23
post #8

Can someone in this space explain how this is a hard problem for Youtube to solve? In my limited understanding, I can see clear blockable patterns with the bot posts shown in this video.

It’s more that there is no function that discriminates against a given kind of spam without a false positive rate, and after you implement it, the scammers can just switch techniques to another while now you are continuously dealing with the false positive rate of your method. The attack surface is nearly the entire human language and we’re not good enough yet at understanding if it is a scam in a scalable, automated way, so we have to keep bolting on things with false positive rates that cause support tickets and lower engagement over time. This is an incredibly hard problem.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#25
post #13
post #7

After an ad, and a minute and 30 seconds of talking head, he still hadn't even started getting to his main point.

Did you even watch the video? There were no ads in it, and the part where he warns his viewers that he will never ask them for money is the whole thing he's talking about, that scammer bots are impersonating him in his comments and trying to trick his viewers.

I had to watch an ad before his video played. I don’t think it was him placing the ad so much as youtube just doing its thing.

I suppose they share that ad revenue with TCC.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#26
Farming this out to humans via CAPTCHAs ("Flag the scam comment") risks the Cobra Effect.

Viewing it through an economic lens the other end of the problem to attack is naïve users - if they're identified and don't see the comments the scammers stop making money.

Another creators-centric model is to disable comments on YouTube and only have comments on another platform that embeds the videos.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#27
Does YouTube offer the ability to pre-moderate vs post-moderate comments? Yes, he would have to go through and allow many, many comments, but also pretty soon the scammers would give up based on my prior experience with blog and email spam.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#28

We need a way to make commenting on social media cost something. As long as it is free there is no way humans can compete with bots. As nobody wants to spend real money on it we probably need some social credit system but one that is hard to game and probably rate limiting. We urgently need this otherwise AI will take over the world by dominating the social networks.

I know in a certain infamous forum, it was something like $10 to make an account. If you got banned, you could just fork out another $10 on a new account. Which certainly limited some behaviors, or at least made them expensive.

Depending on the implementation of a pay-to-comment scenario, it could still be profitable for the scammers to pay. They would definitely be tracking CTR or whatever their equivalent is on scam campaigns.

In this case, the scammers are all using similar profile photos, so that part of the whack-a-mole seems like easy pickins. At least at creation time, they could fuzzy compare the profile photos of the commenter and the channel. And compare among other commenters.

The scammers would definitely move on to something else, but it seems like the scammers are scoring a lot of really easy wins right now.

I hate scammers and I love ruining their day, but this is one of many areas where I can't give more attention to it than the platform can.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#29
post #4

Maybe I'm a callous bastard, but I genuinely don't get how he feels personally responsible here. It's a YouTube problem, not a M:tG problem or a him problem. He sounds genuinely distressed, and I feel for him, but I don't get why it causes him pain in this specific way. It's not your fault! And for what it's worth, it's not really YouTube's "fault" either. Remember, they're victims here too. They didn't invite this,…

> And for what it's worth, it's not really YouTube's "fault" either. Remember, they're victims here too. They didn't invite this, they didn't ask for this

“Let’s see if we can host all the world’s video content and all its commentary only using automated tools!”

That was the idea behind the social media boom and it was a foolhardy one. The moderation problems that social media platforms are having now are 100% of their own invitation. They just managed to hold them off for a while.

Re: Magic the Gathering content creator pleas YouTube to stop scammer bot deluge

#30
post #8

Can someone in this space explain how this is a hard problem for Youtube to solve? In my limited understanding, I can see clear blockable patterns with the bot posts shown in this video.

Seems like it'd be exceedingly well-suited to an ML model that's tuned by a neverending stream of data (positives, false positives, false negatives, etc). The cat-and-mouse game would still be there, but the "lag time" between shifts in spammer strategies and the model's ability to deal with them would presumably grow increasingly small over time, until eventually it would cease to be worth bothering with for many current spammers.
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