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Zero energy ready homes are coming

energy.gov

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Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#21

Aren’t larger, opulent home designs far more difficult to make energy efficient?

Generally, yes. They tend to have a lot of corners (for their "architectural features" checklist), and those are really hard to insulate well.

They also tend to be purchased by people who don't care in the slightest about energy efficiency, because if you can buy a $10M home, the difference between $500/mo or $1500/mo in energy costs doesn't matter to you.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#22

This is a pet issue of mine, having lived in two off grid homes going back to the 80's. The barriers are not materials, technology, or labor, but purely regulatory. I could take my current home off permanently grid with solar today for less than 10k but to do so would be illegal. Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

To be fair - technology is lacking for people living in the city to be able to go off grid in a meaningful way.

Disconnecting from the grid - that sounds like there's some kind of clause in the area that you live that essentially ties you to the utility. You must live in on the pacific coast or SW.

EDIT: To all the responses - I'm talking off grid as in all functionality. Sure you can add solar / solar thermal etc though in many places it isn't cost effective and doesn't make a lot of sense in a city where the alternative is that those costs are defrayed across a large base that provides reliability and service. I don't have much love for utilities but they do provide a valuable service.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#23
OP links to https://www.energy.gov/eere/buildings/zero-energy-ready-home... , which explains that its definition of a Zero Energy Ready Home is "a high-performance home that is so energy efficient that a renewable energy system could offset most or all the home's annual energy use".

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#24
post #2

Interesting. Is there a good consise page detailing the main differences between this and older standards? Stuff like cost and ease of maintenance comparisons?

To get really high R value on insulation, often that means a 2x6 or 2x8 framed outer wall to allow for the additional thickness needed by the insulation. Double pane windows are well-surpassed by those with many panes and carefully designed frames with low thermal bridging. Aside from more insulation you need great air sealing, across every joint and in every window and door frame. Older construction had no explicit ventilation, just a lot of leaking such that the house "breathed". On modern, efficient homes, the air seal is very tight for efficiency reasons, so you need an ERV/HRV system to exhange air for you to keep the air healthy, while minimizing energy loss for that airflow. Insulating materials used inside the roof and sheathing are typically closed cell foam or rockwool, or in Europe they sometimes use a wood fiber based insulation. There are lots of caulks and adhesive tapes for getting a good air seal, and there's also a technique where one pumps the house frame full of a vapor that reacts across pressure drops and plugs any holes it flows through.

Last, well insulated homes can get cheap heating and cooling from modestly sized heat pumps which are very efficient. One zero energy home I saw has heat exchangers on the roof to capture energy from the sun for warm water as well, supplemented by heat pumps powered by photovoltaics.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#25
post #12

$5000 tax credit for a ZERH home that may cost $400k to build. Just from an incentive pov is it enough to swing the needle? Most probably I am glossing over something.

Yeah I'm laughing at this too. With land prices being what they are, this just means builders will make only luxury multi-million dollar homes with these codes in mind.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#26
post #19
post #9

Like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house ?

No, because those actually work. But they're also tricky to operate properly. This seems more like "I want you to feel good about your purchase while you're still dependent on external energy inputs." If you can find details on what it actually requires, please, share, because I've spent the past 15 minutes snoofing around and I sure can't find it.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2022-10/DOE%20ZER...

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#27
post #9

Like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house ?

I live on campus at Cornell Tech. The student residence hall[0] there is built following Passive House standards and it is actually surprising how good it works. My one complaint is the heating and cooling systems in every apartment unit are very heavily regulated, so at times the inside feel and temperature aren't ideal. It's a minor thing though.

[0] https://thehouseatcornelltech.com/sustainability/

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#28
When you've confused "per kWh cost" with "energy to the house delivery costs," this sort of stuff sounds good on paper, but it doesn't fundamentally solve the problem that in the winter, homes use a lot more energy than they can generate, and in the spring/fall, they will generate a lot more energy than they need.

I've got a large ground mount solar install I put in a few years ago (15.9kW nameplate, though mostly east-west facing panels so a bit less annual production than you'd expect, just more "sunup to sundown" production), and it's been a chilly winter, so with an air source heat pump and keeping the house fairly cool, I'm still net +4MWh from the grid in the last 4 months.

Meanwhile, when it warms up a bit more, I'm generating 10x what the house uses during spring/fall mornings (10+ kW production on a sub-1kW house draw for long periods of the day). It's not a big deal with only a few people on the grid, but if every house were doing this, it would be a very big problem for grid stability.

I've also got experience with the off-grid lifestyle, as my office is 100% off-grid/standalone, and I don't pretend that system is cheap. Just neat. And even with 5kW of solar hung for a ~100 sq ft shed, I still need propane or a generator in the winter every now and then to keep things sane in here.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#29

This is a pet issue of mine, having lived in two off grid homes going back to the 80's. The barriers are not materials, technology, or labor, but purely regulatory. I could take my current home off permanently grid with solar today for less than 10k but to do so would be illegal. Permitted grid connected solar costs 5x that and disconnecting from the grid is not permitted.

How would you get enough panels and all the support equipment for $10K if there were no regulations? I'm looking into it right now and I don't see a path to that.

Re: Zero energy ready homes are coming

#30
post #21

Aren’t larger, opulent home designs far more difficult to make energy efficient?

Generally, yes. They tend to have a lot of corners (for their "architectural features" checklist), and those are really hard to insulate well. They also tend to be purchased by people who don't care in the slightest about energy efficiency, because if you can buy a $10M home, the difference between $500/mo or $1500/mo in energy costs doesn't matter to you.

Competing element though is they probably have more land to put solar on, so if they don't find it to be aesthetically incompatible, they could probably push through those energy losses.
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