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Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

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Re: Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

#21

Post by Karunamon »

Simucal wrote: post #16
Karunamon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone has cracked software, pirated movies, & torrents That's a bit of a leap, really. Also, Truecrypt's deniable encryption here doesn't seem like it would help, since they're talking at the computer level. Presumably, a power on or hard drive password. Assuming there's only one volume, you put that one in and the attacker has the keys to the kingdom. Besides that, most averages joes wouldn't go through this kin…

TrueCrypt supports Hidden OS partitions much like its normal hidden containers and it asks for these passwords at boot. You could enter one password and have it boot into a boring Windows XP environment while the true password would boot to your actual environment with all your secret files.

There's the file time problem, though. Okay, let's say you're Joe Randomguy and you keep two XP partitions. One that you actively use and might have all manner of contraband on it, and another "boring" one for showing any would-be snoopers.

It's Jan 2012. What do you think is going to happen when they see that the one you gave up the code to hasn't been touched since July 2011?

Does Truecrypt have an option to not record date/time stamps on volumes, or better yet, scramble them?

Re: Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

#22

Post by burgerbrain »

Karunamon wrote: post #8
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #3

The problem here is what are they going to find that ISN'T Illegal? Everyone has cracked software, pirated movies, & torrents. Then there's content that isn't illegal but very personal: chat logs, email archives, contact lists, usernames & passwords, FTP info, master passwords to everything, OH and my entire life's worth of inventions and ideas. I'm not saying they'd steal them but remember, we're talking about the A…

>Everyone has cracked software, pirated movies, & torrents That's a bit of a leap, really. Also, Truecrypt's deniable encryption here doesn't seem like it would help, since they're talking at the computer level. Presumably, a power on or hard drive password. Assuming there's only one volume, you put that one in and the attacker has the keys to the kingdom. Besides that, most averages joes wouldn't go through this kin…

I think it is quite a leap to assume that anything more than a minority don't have things like that.

Re: Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

#26

Post by Simucal »

felipemnoa wrote: post #18
Simucal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what the courts would say when told that it is possible to have a hidden inner volume that is impossible to detect and when I hand over my key it may just be the outer containers, not the hidden inner container that I have unlocked.

That is like saying that you are guilty but there is no way to prove it.

I agree. However, having the capability to have an undetectable hidden innner volume feels like it makes a lot of this moot.

That is, as long as the inner volumes remain truly undetectable.

Re: Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

#27

Post by burgerbrain »

Karunamon wrote: post #21
Simucal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TrueCrypt supports Hidden OS partitions much like its normal hidden containers and it asks for these passwords at boot. You could enter one password and have it boot into a boring Windows XP environment while the true password would boot to your actual environment with all your secret files.

There's the file time problem, though. Okay, let's say you're Joe Randomguy and you keep two XP partitions. One that you actively use and might have all manner of contraband on it, and another "boring" one for showing any would-be snoopers. It's Jan 2012. What do you think is going to happen when they see that the one you gave up the code to hasn't been touched since July 2011? Does Truecrypt have an option to not re…

Standard practice is to use the one you don't care about for things you don't care about (which for most people, will be most things. Web browsing, gaming, emailing the aunt, whatever).

Timestamps are going to be at the FS layer or higher, not much Truecrypt can realistically do about that..

Re: Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

#28

Post by cdr »

grecy wrote: post #4

>Dubois said that, in addition, his client may not be able to decrypt the laptop for any number of reasons. "If that's the case, then we'll report that fact to the court, and the law is fairly clear that people cannot be punished for failure to do things they are unable to do," he said. So can everyone just claim they can't decrypt their drive because of ?

It would depend on how plausible what you say is - ie, whether a judge believes you.

Re: Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

#29

Post by thekevan »

I hate that I think I agree with the ruling. If the authorities had a warrant to someone's house and barricade themselves in so there could be no entry, we'd hardly give it a second thought that they were violating the warrant. Refusing to give up a password to an encrypted drive is effectively barricading your content.

I guess my issue is what they describe as probable cause for issuing the warrant in the first place.

Re: Judge: Americans can be forced to decrypt their laptops

#30

Post by ______ »

grecy wrote: post #4

>Dubois said that, in addition, his client may not be able to decrypt the laptop for any number of reasons. "If that's the case, then we'll report that fact to the court, and the law is fairly clear that people cannot be punished for failure to do things they are unable to do," he said. So can everyone just claim they can't decrypt their drive because of ?

Yeah, does forgetting a password constitute one of these reasons? It's perfectly plausible if the laptop has been sitting in an evidence locker for a while. People forget passwords all the time.
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