We should teach all our kids to code • Hacker News Board

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#21

Post by LeafStorm » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:03 PM UTC

drbawb wrote: post #20

rorrr wrote: post #18

I remember when we got our first computer, my dad won't let me play any games for more than a few minutes a day, but I could play the games I wrote myself as much as I wanted. That was a brilliant idea - it gave me the taste of the good games, which was a huge motivation. It did take a while to create an actual playable game (back then we didn't have easy to use graphics libraries like Processing), but then it all be…

This seems like an excellent technique. Although I think it'd be much harder today. In my childhood I'd be easily entertained by a text adventure or a pretty simple sprite based game. Now a days your kid would have to create the next Call of Duty. Perhaps a strategy that would make more sense in today's world is to get them the Valve Hammer Editor (or equivalent SDK) and instead have them make levels for their favori…

While that would be cool, it's not programming.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#22

Post by abstractbill » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:03 PM UTC

bwarp wrote: post #3

apexauk wrote: post #2

This is an issue I'm very passionate about, and I'm sure many others are too. I'd love to hear other's thoughts on how we educate the next generation and the best way to teach coding in 2012.

I wouldn't bother. Why? It takes a certain mindset to write code. Not everyone has it or is interested in it. My children couldn't care less about it and that's up to them. They'd rather be digging holes in the garden and covering things in paint. I'm not here to indoctrinate them with my own interests but to nurture their interests. Education is fundamentally flawed on the basis that it mandates knowledge on politic…

It takes a certain mindset to write code. Not everyone has it or is interested in it.

It takes a certain mindset to make a living as an author, and my kids might not have that. But I'm damned if I'll let them grow up not knowing how to read and write.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#23

Post by simonbrown » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

> try telling that to anyone who has tried to hire developers in the past three years. Sure, much great talent is out there – but the supply and demand balance is off the scale.

Really? Computer science has the highest unemployment rate of all degrees in the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10477551

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#24

Post by dragonsky » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

I'm sorry, but here in Australia and I assume from what I hear it is the same in the US, teachers are struggling to have kids leave primary school being able to write a complete sentence and add a row of numbers.

They are already being expected to impart to the kids sex education, anti bulling education, physical education, sun safe education, how to not eat too much crap and get fat education and many other things that in a normal society would be the responsibility of parents but the government now seems to believe should be imparted by the formal education system.

There are many things wrong with the modern education system, and I don't think many of them are going to be solved by imposing the requirement to teach programming on teachers who in many cases struggle themselves to even turn on a computer let alone be able to make it do what they want in any meaningful way.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#25

Post by mkr-hn » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:15 PM UTC

I was introduced to QBASIC when I was little. I found (and still find) programming tedious and unfulfilling, but it did prepare me for when I needed to know basic HTML to publish a static blog a few years later. The early stuff probably wasn't essential since I would have picked it up to make basic websites and blogs later, but it might have helped a little.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#26

Post by Lambdanaut » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:21 PM UTC

LeafStorm wrote: post #21

drbawb wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like an excellent technique. Although I think it'd be much harder today. In my childhood I'd be easily entertained by a text adventure or a pretty simple sprite based game. Now a days your kid would have to create the next Call of Duty. Perhaps a strategy that would make more sense in today's world is to get them the Valve Hammer Editor (or equivalent SDK) and instead have them make levels for their favori…

While that would be cool, it's not programming .

You'd be surprised. I got started in programming by making Warcraft 3 maps. The trigger editor is a visual programming language in itself.

I've made everything from simple RPGs to genetic algorithms that evolve micro strategy in AIs using the Warcraft 3 Map Editor alone.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#27

Post by RodgerTheGreat » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:22 PM UTC

drbawb wrote: post #20

rorrr wrote: post #18

I remember when we got our first computer, my dad won't let me play any games for more than a few minutes a day, but I could play the games I wrote myself as much as I wanted. That was a brilliant idea - it gave me the taste of the good games, which was a huge motivation. It did take a while to create an actual playable game (back then we didn't have easy to use graphics libraries like Processing), but then it all be…

This seems like an excellent technique. Although I think it'd be much harder today. In my childhood I'd be easily entertained by a text adventure or a pretty simple sprite based game. Now a days your kid would have to create the next Call of Duty. Perhaps a strategy that would make more sense in today's world is to get them the Valve Hammer Editor (or equivalent SDK) and instead have them make levels for their favori…

Last summer I taught introductory programming courses for middle-schoolers, and one of the first things we did was play Zork for about half an hour, as a class. Then I started showing them how to make their own text-based adventure game with rooms, a basic inventory and simple puzzles. All of my students were having a blast with Zork, and they seemed to find making text adventure games highly rewarding. I think you underestimate the imagination of today's kids.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#28

Post by apexauk » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:24 PM UTC

simonbrown wrote: post #23

> try telling that to anyone who has tried to hire developers in the past three years. Sure, much great talent is out there – but the supply and demand balance is off the scale. Really? Computer science has the highest unemployment rate of all degrees in the UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10477551

Yes, really. That's an interesting link, thanks. But to be honest, I don't find the stat surprising. I spent a term studying CS at Surrey in 2004 - I couldn't immediately find the 2004 rankings but it ranked 8th for CS in 2008:

http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/ra...

That first term consisted of multiple choice exams in C and HTML, where one of the questions didn't have a correct answer.

In short, I sadly don't think that any lines can be drawn between 17% unemployment of CS graduates and a supply of great available talent.

Speaking as someone who's processed 200+ applications and hired 7 engineers in London the past 2 years, sharing stories with my colleagues at other companies - great talent is very hard to find.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#29

Post by apexauk » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:26 PM UTC

rorrr wrote: post #18

I remember when we got our first computer, my dad won't let me play any games for more than a few minutes a day, but I could play the games I wrote myself as much as I wanted. That was a brilliant idea - it gave me the taste of the good games, which was a huge motivation. It did take a while to create an actual playable game (back then we didn't have easy to use graphics libraries like Processing), but then it all be…

This made me laugh as I remembered my initial hourly quota for dial-up internet access :) But yes, similar story for me - programming my ZX spectrum to make my own games was where I started out.

Re: We should teach all our kids to code

#30

Post by sliverstorm » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 7:27 PM UTC

simonbrown wrote: post #23

> try telling that to anyone who has tried to hire developers in the past three years. Sure, much great talent is out there – but the supply and demand balance is off the scale. Really? Computer science has the highest unemployment rate of all degrees in the UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10477551

Given those data points, the logical conclusion is that the article means the supply and demand balance of talented computer scientists is off the scale, and that the reason the field has the highest unemployment is because it is saturated with individuals lacking sufficient talent.

It seems kind of cold, hearing myself say this, but before concluding the article is 'wrong', I'm inclined to explore possible alternative interpretations.