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I don't owe you scala-tools.org

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Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#21

Post by soc88 »

earl wrote: post #3

tl;dr: David Pollack created lift. He also created and ran scala-tools.org, a maven repo and documentation host for scala stuff. He's recently decided to transition off much of his scala involvement, in part because his new startup visi.pro uses neither scala nor the jvm. Several months ago he asked for help taking over scala-tools. There was not much response, and amongst the handful of people who stepped up, there…

While I think he has all rights to feel insulted by an individual, I think holding the whole community responsible for that individual and threatening to use the site for damaging the reputation of the Scala community as a whole is a bit too much.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#22

Post by dkhenry »

The less he is involved in the scalar community the better. Yes he is right no one has any inherent right to his work or his infrastructure. however he treats the site like his gift to us simple mortals. Here is why people are upset ,because that was a maven host for a bunch of scalar software and instead of transitioning it to a new owner he said no its mine now I paid for it find your own domain, ohh and by the way rewrite all your code and documentation and tutorials to point to another site because I want to be paid for the community others created around my hardware and domain name.

Again he has every right to do what he is doing its his stuff , but its still a very disrespectful way he went about doing it.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#23

Post by raganwald »

tikhonj wrote: post #17
raganwald wrote: post #12

The form letter template for open source abandonware: http://raganwald.posterous.com/form-letter-template-for-open...

There's nothing wrong with dropping support, but trying to delete the source on the internet seems petty and completely unnecessary. Some of the projects I use a lot were basically abandoned but left open (hey, Google Code and Github are free); they were later picked up, improved and supported by others. (JS2 mode is the best example of this.) Also, I really think you should be polite even if rudeness is justified. O…

> trying to delete the source on the internet seems petty and completely unnecessary

One of the beauties of nearly all forms of free stuff is that the source is free. If users are actively maintaining it, they have their own repositories and forks. Even pure consumers will have their own copies of the source. I will not disparage the motives of people who give me free stuff and then decide for themselves how they wish to discontinue giving me free stuff, but I will say that removing the source ought to be an inconvenience at worst, and of no great consequence in most cases.

See also: “Ideas are forever”

http://raganwald.posterous.com/ideas-are-forever

p.s. I hope you realized that my tongue was firmly in cheek and were responding in kind, not suggesting that David Pollock is petty and rude :-)

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#24

Post by effu »

soc88 wrote: post #21
earl wrote: post #3

tl;dr: David Pollack created lift. He also created and ran scala-tools.org, a maven repo and documentation host for scala stuff. He's recently decided to transition off much of his scala involvement, in part because his new startup visi.pro uses neither scala nor the jvm. Several months ago he asked for help taking over scala-tools. There was not much response, and amongst the handful of people who stepped up, there…

While I think he has all rights to feel insulted by an individual, I think holding the whole community responsible for that individual and threatening to use the site for damaging the reputation of the Scala community as a whole is a bit too much.

This. He reads like a 14 year old boy who's been jilted by his first girlfriend. Do grown mean really need a website for "working through my sadness about opportunities lost" when they change primary programming language?

He's such a source of drama; the Scala community is better off without him.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#25

Post by alan_cx »

On the face of it, this guy seems reasonable, just a little harsh. Sounds like he has good reason to be a bit harsh.

Seems to me that what we have here is a techie programmer type who does not entirely get customer relations, and hasn't managed to shape the message that well. Which is pretty much as it should be, the two skill sets don't usually collide. And I suppose why companies that can afford it get customer relation advice or employees. Perhaps some of these groups or what ever, should look for volunteers who do understand PR. Maybe they would be looking to bring this open source spirit out side of tech related areas.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#26

Post by tikhonj »

raganwald wrote: post #23
tikhonj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with dropping support, but trying to delete the source on the internet seems petty and completely unnecessary. Some of the projects I use a lot were basically abandoned but left open (hey, Google Code and Github are free); they were later picked up, improved and supported by others. (JS2 mode is the best example of this.) Also, I really think you should be polite even if rudeness is justified. O…

> trying to delete the source on the internet seems petty and completely unnecessary One of the beauties of nearly all forms of free stuff is that the source is free. If users are actively maintaining it, they have their own repositories and forks. Even pure consumers will have their own copies of the source. I will not disparage the motives of people who give me free stuff and then decide for themselves how they wis…

I didn't mean to imply either of you were petty or rude. Rather, I think I'm just reacting to the prevalent idea around here that it's okay to be a bit of a jerk if somebody else is a jerk first. And while I guess it is okay, I think it is distinctly sub-optimal.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#27

Post by nknight »

The response to these incidents is depressingly predictable. "Yes he has the right to shut it down, but..." -- no, there is no "but".

Consider this: An employee quits his job. Do you say "Yes, he has the right to quit, but..."? No. There is no "but". He has the right to quit, period.

Involuntary servitude isn't allowed even when someone is getting paid for it, what the hell makes you think it's acceptable when they aren't, and are even investing their own resources?

He's not being a jerk, he's not being harsh. His right in this matter is absolute, and he's already given the community more of an opportunity than was necessary -- legally, ethically, or socially -- to step up. He has no obligation of any kind to keep putting his time and money into it. If you want slavery, build yourself a time machine, don't demand that he do it for you.

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#28

Post by SkyMarshal »

soc88 wrote: post #21
earl wrote: post #3

tl;dr: David Pollack created lift. He also created and ran scala-tools.org, a maven repo and documentation host for scala stuff. He's recently decided to transition off much of his scala involvement, in part because his new startup visi.pro uses neither scala nor the jvm. Several months ago he asked for help taking over scala-tools. There was not much response, and amongst the handful of people who stepped up, there…

While I think he has all rights to feel insulted by an individual, I think holding the whole community responsible for that individual and threatening to use the site for damaging the reputation of the Scala community as a whole is a bit too much.

I think the community knows he's not holding the whole of them responsible. David is a well known, smart, decent, civil guy among them.

And maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anywhere he threatened to "use the site for damaging the reputation of the Scala community as a whole".

Re: I don't owe you scala-tools.org

#30

Post by lmm »

nknight wrote: post #27

The response to these incidents is depressingly predictable. "Yes he has the right to shut it down, but..." -- no, there is no "but". Consider this: An employee quits his job. Do you say "Yes, he has the right to quit, but..."? No. There is no "but". He has the right to quit, period. Involuntary servitude isn't allowed even when someone is getting paid for it, what the hell makes you think it's acceptable when they a…

He has the right to quit, but the domain is a .org, and its name is not his but that of the language; it should belong to the community. If he wants to stop running it that's fine, but he should let it lapse or sell it to someone who will maintain it for the community, not turn it into something else.
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