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U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#21

Post by milsorgen »

ch4s3 wrote: post #4

I think this has been well established for years. I remember seeing some studies circa 2008 showing that more energy in the form of diesel and fossil fuel derived fertilizer went into corn ethanol than you get out in usable fuel. It has always been an agricultural subsidy.

Yes I remember corn based ethanol, among other alternatives for liquid fuel production, were hot topics during the Bush Administration. If I recall correctly an issue of NatGeo/SciAm/NewSci wrote that it wouldn't achieve it's goals or benefits and there better avenues such as algae to explore and I believe at least for Brazil, further sugar cane waste utilization. It always struck me as odd to see we've stayed the course on this approach when even in the beginning the numbers weren't adding up.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#24

Post by hammock »

milsorgen wrote: post #21
ch4s3 wrote: post #4

I think this has been well established for years. I remember seeing some studies circa 2008 showing that more energy in the form of diesel and fossil fuel derived fertilizer went into corn ethanol than you get out in usable fuel. It has always been an agricultural subsidy.

Yes I remember corn based ethanol, among other alternatives for liquid fuel production, were hot topics during the Bush Administration. If I recall correctly an issue of NatGeo/SciAm/NewSci wrote that it wouldn't achieve it's goals or benefits and there better avenues such as algae to explore and I believe at least for Brazil, further sugar cane waste utilization. It always struck me as odd to see we've stayed the co…

The DOE lists three benefits - energy security, jobs and offset carbon emissions. If the net carbon one turns out to be bogus, the other two benefits remain

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_benefits.html

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#25

Post by milsorgen »

silverwasthere wrote: post #14

I thought corn ethanol was for fuel diversity, not green energy.

It was positioned as both at one point. Really they just threw out every imagined or perceived benefit and ran with it irrespective of what the data was or is indicating.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#27

Post by l33t233372 »

hammock wrote: post #15
Laaas wrote: post #13

Intuitively this seems wrong. The explanation in the article doesn't seem convincing. Any form of synthetic fuel that doesn't take more carbon out of the Earth should be better, no?

More energy in the form of diesel and fossil fuel derived fertilizer went into corn ethanol than you get out in usable fuel

I think that the post was saying that it doesn’t require us to take carbon out from deep within earth and put it into the atmosphere.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#28

Post by kube-system »

chasil wrote: post #19
ch4s3 wrote: post #4

I think this has been well established for years. I remember seeing some studies circa 2008 showing that more energy in the form of diesel and fossil fuel derived fertilizer went into corn ethanol than you get out in usable fuel. It has always been an agricultural subsidy.

The ethanol is required as an anti-knock additive. The past alternative was tetraethyllead, which had catastrophic environmental impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#Antiknock_agent

It is used, but not required, as an anti-knock additive.

Unleaded E0 is still available in some places in the US with octane numbers on par with E10 and E15 blends

https://stillwaterassociates.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/...

https://www.pure-gas.org/

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#29

Post by glitchc »

chasil wrote: post #19
ch4s3 wrote: post #4

I think this has been well established for years. I remember seeing some studies circa 2008 showing that more energy in the form of diesel and fossil fuel derived fertilizer went into corn ethanol than you get out in usable fuel. It has always been an agricultural subsidy.

The ethanol is required as an anti-knock additive. The past alternative was tetraethyllead, which had catastrophic environmental impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraethyllead#Antiknock_agent

I find ethanol actually increases knocking in all of my engines. Switched to ethanol free years ago and I recall it made a difference in performance and mileage.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#30

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

hammock wrote: post #24
milsorgen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I remember corn based ethanol, among other alternatives for liquid fuel production, were hot topics during the Bush Administration. If I recall correctly an issue of NatGeo/SciAm/NewSci wrote that it wouldn't achieve it's goals or benefits and there better avenues such as algae to explore and I believe at least for Brazil, further sugar cane waste utilization. It always struck me as odd to see we've stayed the co…

The DOE lists three benefits - energy security, jobs and offset carbon emissions. If the net carbon one turns out to be bogus, the other two benefits remain https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/ethanol_benefits.html

Jobs for the jobs god is just the broken window fallacy though. If employing people in ethanol production is hastening the ruination of our environment, lets just give them money not to do that instead.
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