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Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

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Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#21

This post is important and I think that your feelings echo those of many thousands of graduate students. Let me talk a little bit as a rare case: I've worked now under 7 advisors on 7 different projects and now I'm finally almost done. Most of the projects have been as you describe: "after almost a year, it is fair to say that I have good view of the project and it is almost surely a giant failure." That's how most p…

I know of one exception. He explained his system: he does the research, then he gets grants for his research. This gives him time to do new research and he writes new grants based on that. He delivers because he only proposes to do what he has already more or less done!

That is brilliant! It reminds me of two things.

One is Craig Larman's work on the history of the waterfall process. Larman posed the question: given how broken the waterfall process is, how was it possible for any project to succeed? (The failures of course are easy to explain.) So he went back and interviewed people who were on famous waterfall projects that succeeded. And they told him: "Of course we knew it would never work to do all the design up front. So we built the system and then went back and wrote the spec, handed it in and got it signed off, and later submitted the actual code."

The other thing it reminds me of is Andrew Wiles writing a stack of papers in advance so he would have ten years to work on Fermat's Last Theorem while still publishing regularly.

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#23
I'm in a similar boat, only I stopped taking funding and am borrowing the money for school now. I've blown years on working on others' research projects instead of focusing on my own topic.

One old little statistic keeps screaming in the back of my head: in any given software development project, the average difference in productivity between the least and most productive programmers is 3600% -- so you're not in an unusual situation. The ones pretending to be scientists in your group end up on the bottom rungs of the hierarchy later.

As for sanity & graduation, I guess the question isn't what your group's doing, but what's _your_ research on? If you haven't decided your topic yet, you have some good scheming to do. If you have, then you have some more underhanded scheming to do. It's not cynical, it's being focused. The reason the project looks like a giant failure, assuming the ones planning it aren't complete idiots, is that it's essentially a cover story for specific research interests by the primary stakeholders.

The goal is to figure out how to pull as much good research you can on nonprimary topics out of the body of research your group is doing as a whole. The primary topic is rarely as interesting or as scientifically fruitful as the stuff you find on the way.

From your discussion, it sounds like you can't find a direct way to pull good research out of your mess of a research project. Perhaps it's time to talk about an interesting subsystem? Some way of coercing a small part of the project into useful research for you? Feel free to be as devious as you need to be, it sounds like you're one of the only few who care. The rest don't, and so it won't matter to them.

If not, look for viable exit strategies. You're there to do research. If you can't do it, then you're wasting your time.

And seriously, where's your adviser in all this?

As for research, I'm going to industry in a few months, but I never plan to stop researching. Only now I have to pay for my own hardware, which isn't terribly expensive giving what industry pays for a good computer scientist these days. Screw publication, I'm gonna be a crackpot independent scientist!

There are a few companies out there that make enclosed racks which take care of heat & noise for you. They look good underneath a TV.

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#24
post #16

Some... play along, trying to get their own stuff done on the side. Others... are happy to have a good place where they can surf the net the whole day, while pretending to be scientists. Some of my collegues are completely clueless... but being generally friendly goes a long way. Congratulations! Your training is nearly complete! Welcome to the ranks of the enlightened! ;) Your essay is pretty comprehensive and one c…

Nice gem from the 'Yegge-esque'ness: "Consider the delightful personal pleasures that crackpottery has to offer."

How many of us haven't considered a small lair, a few minions, and a doomsday device before?

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#25
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice gem from the 'Yegge-esque'ness: "Consider the delightful personal pleasures that crackpottery has to offer."

How many of us haven't considered a small lair, a few minions, and a doomsday device before?

Throw in evil robots and sharks with lasers and I'm there.

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#26
I know from experience that your project is like a _lot_ of currently funded, large research projects. Depressing, huh?

Also, I know this is likely not what you want to hear, but it doesn't get any better after your PhD. If you're lucky, you'll get on tenure track and work your arse off for the next 5 years in order to (maybe) get tenure. If you're not so lucky you'll be fighting for post-docs on the type of projects you're talking about. Hopefully there will be only one post-doc, there could easily be 2 or 3.

My take is this: Under no circumstances accept the status quo. I've seen so many graduate students spiral into depression because they stuck at it. I know I did, and I stuck at it because of some weird obsession with how I was perceived in the world (by my parents, my old friends, whatever), and because I didn't spend enough time asking myself: What makes me happy? How do I want to live my life - and I don't mean "I want to be a scientist", I mean day-to-day, what do you want to be doing? Where do you want to be doing it?

So my suggestion is to spend time figuring out if there's another project you'd _love_ to work on, and if not, then consider quitting. No shame in that.

Also, I'd spend the time to watch Dan Gilbert's TED talk:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/dan_gilbert_asks_why_are_...

If you want to talk more, please feel free to contact me: einar@vollset.com

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#27
I think your answers to these questions have a lot to do with your career goals. If you don't have an interest in being an academic, then I'd definitely jump ship and do something where progress is tied to revenue (i.e., business). If you do want to be an academic, then I'd work hard to make the best out of what seems to be a pretty frustrating situation. You can still redeem this experience through networking, running side projects, publishing etc. Those are all things that will help you if you choose to remain in the academy.

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#28

Where are you in grad school that pays 60-70% of industry? I'm at a top 4 prog (one of Stanford / MIT / Berkeley / CMU), and it doesn't pay nearly as well (unless you have a very different meaning of industry).

Europe, not-so-high salaries, high taxes, social equality, long payed holidays, etc. etc.

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#29
post #21

This post is important and I think that your feelings echo those of many thousands of graduate students. Let me talk a little bit as a rare case: I've worked now under 7 advisors on 7 different projects and now I'm finally almost done. Most of the projects have been as you describe: "after almost a year, it is fair to say that I have good view of the project and it is almost surely a giant failure." That's how most p…

I know of one exception. He explained his system: he does the research, then he gets grants for his research. This gives him time to do new research and he writes new grants based on that. He delivers because he only proposes to do what he has already more or less done! That is brilliant! It reminds me of two things. One is Craig Larman's work on the history of the waterfall process. Larman posed the question: given…

That's what I decided to do a week ago in one of my classes. I have to write three analyses of other people's work every week on Blackboard, so I will create 4x3x2=24 insightful posts, then post one at a time from a nearby computer lab on the days of the lectures. I think the professor is looking for regular frequency per week, and not on whether we are commenting on work that was put up that same week or weeks ago. And while I copy-paste, if I notice a brand-new interesting work, I might write an analyses about it right on the spot, so as not to have every one of my analyses be about work from October.

Re: Ask YC: How to survive grad school?

#30
post #10

My advice is to see what other projects are available in your department/university. Talk to other grad students (especially friends) to get a feel for what the other projects/professors are like and switch if something else looks better. People do it all of the time. It's very common for a grad student to realize after a while that their project or advisor is a bust. Going into it, you have only a small amount of in…

Also, try to get outside funding for yourself (grants, fellowships,etc., apply for everything). Your advisor will like it, but it will also make you more attractive to potential new advisors, even if they don't have money for an additional student at the moment.
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