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Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

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Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#21

If I remember correctly, Turkiyé (did I spel it write?) has always had a bunch of rolling heads, after buildings fall down like dominoes, during their frequent quakes. Doesn't seem to have changed things. Japan, on the other hand, seems to have a really hard-core construction ethos. During quakes there, buildings rock around like they are at a rave, and don't fall down. If we ever have a big quake in New York, we're…

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Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#22
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

It cuts both ways. What about the homeless person dying in the cold because he can't afford shelter due to sky high building requirements - is that included in the building code enforcement rules?

I don't think I've seen a case where the local government wants to build more housing but, gosh, they're just too expensive. It's usually NIMBYism or just general disinterest in a "non-sexy" political issue.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#23
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

Seems like it'd be smart to have a footnote or reference to the tragedy that informed the code on each section instead of allowing everything to be forgotten every couple years

Law needs Multiline comments!

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#24
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

Seems like it'd be smart to have a footnote or reference to the tragedy that informed the code on each section instead of allowing everything to be forgotten every couple years

For stuff like this, if you live in the region, you probably already know. Large earthquakes don't exactly happen every day. For example, if you want to get behind the "whys" of codes like this in CA, just look at: northridge earthquake, loma prieta earthquake, long beach earthquake, and the 1906 earthquake.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#25
> In nearby Erzin county, however, not a single building collapsed. The local mayor and his predecessor told local media that they did not allow any illegal construction. Both used the same phrase: “My conscience is clear.”

That mayor, Ökkeş Elmasoğlu, should perhaps run for president.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#26
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

> Like workplace safety rules, they are written in the blood of the dead.

Or fire codes.

Related off-topic reminder, in the hope it may save one life one day: please use this comment as a reminder to check upon the status of your smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms and fire extinguisher. At the very least every room where people sleep in should have a smoke alarm and every room with a furnace (boiler, oven, kitchen, ...) a smoke and CO alarm. They must not be painted over, and their batteries be regularly replaced.

Each story of a house should have at least one extinguisher rated for classes A and B (solid and liquid combustibles), kitchens additionally a class F extinguisher (DO NOT EVER use a water/foam extinguisher on a fat fire). Fire extinguishers should be inspected by a licensed professional every two years and must not be used again after breaking the seal without a check-over by a licensed professional.

Also, have your building's electrical lines checked at least once a decade and after each major rework if they are up to code, and regularly check appliance cables for damage. Electrical defects account (in Germany) for roughly a third of all fires.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#27
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

Reminds me so much of the vaccine "debate", "no one gets polio anymore, why do I need to get the polio vaccine?"

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#28

If anything, the Turkiye government are dodging the finger of blame. The fault lies with the politicians for not stamping down hard on developers who flout building regulations and/or allowing them to construct buildings with a 'waiver' that lets them get away with substandard building.

"The fault" isn't some finite and indivisible thing that needs to be assigned to only one group of people. Politicians are at fault for not cracking down on scammers, and the scammer contractors are also at fault for being scammers. One does not diminish the other, stop thinking of fault as zero sum.

I disagree. It is the Government's responsibility to its people to ensure buildings remain safe during earthquakes. If their building regulations are not being obeyed then it is their job to enforce it. It is their responsibility.

Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#29
post #10

My wife has worked in the 'enforcing building codes' sector of engineering for her entire career. And it's so frustrating to watch. Everyone - everyone - is certain that the codes are all overzealous and their little thing needs an exception. Politicians get elected promising to 'get rid of the red tape'. And then an event occurs and we learn why these building codes exist. Like workplace safety rules, they are writt…

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Re: Turkey’s earthquakes show the deadly extent of construction scams

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cuts both ways. What about the homeless person dying in the cold because he can't afford shelter due to sky high building requirements - is that included in the building code enforcement rules?

That's more due to exclusionary zoning than building codes. There is no reason why we couldn't build, for instance, a boarding house under modern building codes, which would create more affordable housing on the low end. The reason that doesn't get built is that the zoning doesn't allow it.

That's partially true, but it's really a combo of both. Things like dual staircase requirements, elevator size requirements, and sprinkler requirements make it extremely expensive to build any sort of housing.

A recent affordable building in SF cost over $1 million per unit. That's completely unsustainable.

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