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Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

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Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#21
During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pay fares anyway.)

I noticed that the boxes were still broken and unmaintained. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that a mobile "upgrade" was coming soon, so I kept my eyes out. And sure enough, I got myself invited to participate in the pilot project with the upgraded app.

The deadlines slipped twice but the pilot began in mid-January. So far I have not had glitches with scanning or boarding. But let me tell you.

There are disclaimers in the FAQ. Since the mobile passes are QR-based and not NFC, they absolutely require WAN connectivity on both sides in order to activate a pass. My initial testing indicated that a loss of connectivity will not invalidate an active pass, because it's endowed with a built-in expiration countdown. But we shall see.

The FAQ also says straight out, of course, that the customer must keep the phone charged in order to use the pass. Of course it goes without saying that your phone must be functional in order to scan the thing. So that's a whole tech stack that could go awry and strand you if you don't take precautions.

Hey, this may reduce fraud and friction at the farebox. I don't know. Many people will love not having another thing to lose or the convenience of purchasing passes without going somewhere (they cost way more on board a bus.) But the Luddite in me doesn't want this. I'd much rather carry around an old reliable paper-based pass, and I will go back to that for as long as I can get away with it.

But I won't turn down a $75 gift card to play along with the pilot test.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#22

During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pay fares anyway.) I noticed that the boxes were still broken and unmaintained. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that a mobile "upgrade" was coming soon, so I kept my eyes out. And sure enough, I got myself invited to participate in the pilot project with the…

> Of course it goes without saying that your phone must be functional in order to scan the thing. So that's a whole tech stack that could go awry and strand you if you don't take precautions

It could go awry if Google fucked up, Samsung/phone manufacturer fucks up, battery or charger fucks up, software developer fucks up, internet, etc, etc.

we are replacing reliable sustems with fragile ones everywhere

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#23
The bit at the end regarding the unauthenticated anti-fraud database of trips reminds me of bus tickets in a couple of australian states, which (locally on the 13MHz MFC cards) store a short rolling log of your most recent trips.

Not as bad as a public API, but probably some degree of a personal safety risk given the security around MFC cards and the ability to ascertain pattern-of-life from the data

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if they do this in the UK, but using apps also gives the government the ability to profit from breakage the same way gift card programs do. The last time I had a public transport app I had to maintain a balance that could expire. The place that implemented this system also prohibited all other forms of payment as a Covid measure, and for some reason hasn’t reverted that policy yet.

In London you can use a normal contactless debit or credit card or NFC payment on a phone for public transport. This is great for Londoners, and even better for visitors who don't need to figure out what they need to buy or how to top up a card. I don't belive the ticket apps being discussed keep a balance, but I haven't used them myself.

I’ve seen that system in quite a few cities now. I’m was initially surprised to see it adopted, because breakage revenue can be enormous. But it’s common enough now that I find places using exclusively the old stored value cards to be outright contemptible.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#25

During the COVID outbreak, my public transit provider began to neglect their fareboxes (partly because everyone was boarding in the rear and didn't bother to pay fares anyway.) I noticed that the boxes were still broken and unmaintained. I put 2 and 2 together and realized that a mobile "upgrade" was coming soon, so I kept my eyes out. And sure enough, I got myself invited to participate in the pilot project with the…

> Of course it goes without saying that your phone must be functional in order to scan the thing. So that's a whole tech stack that could go awry and strand you if you don't take precautions It could go awry if Google fucked up, Samsung/phone manufacturer fucks up, battery or charger fucks up, software developer fucks up, internet, etc, etc. we are replacing reliable sustems with fragile ones everywhere

In sweden Coop supermarkets were closed for a weekend because they rely on some cloud thingy from USA that had gotten a ransomware.

It was their billing system, you couldn't pay cash, they had no way to record it.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#27

Nobody who cheers "mobile tickets" has ever watched a guard or ticket inspector do their job. In the UK, a guard with good eyesight and a sprightly, cheerful manner can almost run through the carriages shouting "tickets please!" and see, with a single glance, all s/he needs. Then she gets to the muppets with phones. They faff, fumble and fuss. They scowl at being interrupted watching videos, browsing social media and…

Kids these days, how dare they use technology, am I right, fellow luddite on the internet? People lose paper tickets. People throw them on the ground. Stations are littered with them. Oh, and people do spend ages looking through their pockets, bags, coats and other places for where their paper ticket is at. You're just being contrarian because you're on a tech website, tbh.

If a mobile phone is now a prerequisite for living, governments should issue them to all citizens, and provide maintenance and replacement.

Or just don't expect people who don't own a phone to own a ticket.

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#28

Nobody who cheers "mobile tickets" has ever watched a guard or ticket inspector do their job. In the UK, a guard with good eyesight and a sprightly, cheerful manner can almost run through the carriages shouting "tickets please!" and see, with a single glance, all s/he needs. Then she gets to the muppets with phones. They faff, fumble and fuss. They scowl at being interrupted watching videos, browsing social media and…

I feel the same way about people who use mobile phone NFC payment at ticket barriers on the tube instead of a plastic cards (again via NFC)

Using your phone is much slower and there's a significant chance it'll just fail and hold up the person behind you (me).

Re: Reversing UK mobile rail tickets

#29
post #26

The photo of a UK train ticket is very interesting. Reading Green Park station isn't yet open, AFAIK: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/RGP/details.html

The price on the ticket is also £1.90M

It usually has an "X" suffix. I'm not sure what the "M" stands for; maybe to mark it as a specimen?
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