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Show HN: Working on a Zero-Knowledge Daily Journaling App

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Re: Show HN: Working on a Zero-Knowledge Daily Journaling App

#21

Post by tony_codes »

The_Colonel wrote: post #17

I've worked on 2 "zero-knowledge" apps (basically meaning all data is encrypted/decrypted on the client) and I would advise against it: * most consumers have no idea what you're talking about / don't care * those who know what "zero trust" is, also know that it's not really trustless. You do have to trust the company that it will never send the password or plaintext data back to the server. Checking this on a continu…

I agree with the pain points you've highlighted -- but I think certain applications do benefit from zero-knowledge. Password managers for example. In the case of journaling, I think one reason people resist is fear of exposure. I agree though, the challenge is communicating the added security to non-technical users.

True users must trust the developers to not make a rogue update, but in practice I think it works fine. We also trust library dependencies to not push a rogue minor update that will crash our site or do something malicious.

Re: Show HN: Working on a Zero-Knowledge Daily Journaling App

#22

Post by tony_codes »

thalassophobia wrote: post #2

Can't find any info about journal encryption on the website itself. Perhaps there should be a page dedicated to explaining how your data is protected. Otherwise great stuff!

yes agree, thanks! The white paper is here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T0SEj5WrymfyzNDD8rNGKQ2O... need to add to landing page

Re: Show HN: Working on a Zero-Knowledge Daily Journaling App

#23

Post by tony_codes »

petesergeant wrote: post #4

I've been journaling for about 15 years now. The big key to getting consistent at it was to stop worrying about trying to write a lot, or trying to write something insightful, and just write a sentence or two at a minimum. Often, that turns into more or into something insightful.

interesting; I benefited from the opposite, which was having a goal of filling one page. This acted as a sort of reward and feeling of accomplishment. But also found any expectations on quality tend to deter me.

Re: Show HN: Working on a Zero-Knowledge Daily Journaling App

#24

Post by tony_codes »

avinassh wrote: post #16

what does Zero-knowledge mean and how it is different from end to end encrypted?

The main thing is that the encryption keys never leave the browser. So even an engineer in control of the backend cannot see the information being saved. With E2E encryption the owner of the data usually also handles the decryption keys.

Re: Show HN: Working on a Zero-Knowledge Daily Journaling App

#28

Post by ilc »

tony_codes wrote: post #21
The_Colonel wrote: post #17

I've worked on 2 "zero-knowledge" apps (basically meaning all data is encrypted/decrypted on the client) and I would advise against it: * most consumers have no idea what you're talking about / don't care * those who know what "zero trust" is, also know that it's not really trustless. You do have to trust the company that it will never send the password or plaintext data back to the server. Checking this on a continu…

I agree with the pain points you've highlighted -- but I think certain applications do benefit from zero-knowledge. Password managers for example. In the case of journaling, I think one reason people resist is fear of exposure. I agree though, the challenge is communicating the added security to non-technical users. True users must trust the developers to not make a rogue update, but in practice I think it works fine…

We've seen how well the library dependencies thing works... alas. Now imagine an actor, who makes malware, where the crash isn't visible. :/

Re: Show HN: Working on a Zero-Knowledge Daily Journaling App

#30

Post by elicash »

hackernewds wrote: post #13
gejose wrote: post #6

Shameless plug for my own password protected daily journal app where all your data stays on your device! Built it late last year to build the habit of writing out my thoughts. * iOS: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/a-journal-a-day/id1659288235 * Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.georgejose...

why do people propose their own competing product in a post discussing another. IMO it's in poor form

Because people reading the comments, who like the concept, may find it useful.

I agree it feels tacky, but on the other hand as a reader, I prefer knowing about alternatives.

The other thing -- and it doesn't apply in this specific case -- is that often knowing about competitors helps clarify what's unique about the original linked post. It's a thing I see on HN a lot: Marko got posted, somewhat says it looks like Svelte syntax, then somebody replies to that and says the Marko is much more performant.

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