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Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

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Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#21

Post by randomdata »

m00x wrote: post #16
bcatanzaro wrote: post #14

This article has aged very poorly. It's hard to look at LLMs and argue they don't have reasoning capability.

They don't have any reasoning capability. There is nowhere in their architecture that would give them the ability to reason. All they do is predict what would be the most likely word to go next in the sentence, considering the current text and the input text.

What is reasoning other than predicting what next step is most likely to produce a desired outcome? That's all it feels like the mind is doing. Is there a more formal take?

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#22

Post by m00x »

robomartin wrote: post #17

Stop calling everything a robot while you are at it. Once marketing folk get their paws on terms they can lose or expand their meaning. It's just the way it is.

That's probably because the definition of `robot` is different in almost every dictionary. Cambridge defines it as: a machine controlled by a computer that is used to perform jobs automatically

Others say it has to look human to be considered a robot.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#23

Post by ChrisLTD »

m00x wrote: post #15
coding123 wrote: post #9

AI Is the PERFECT name for all of this stuff. Artificial Intelligence. He's arguing because it's artificial it shouldn't be called artificial.

He's arguing that AI should be closer to what the public calls AGI. The semantics are important here, since people think that LLMs like chatGPT have intellect, and some have even gone so far as to tie an IQ to it. The truth is that the model has no intelligence, but can do what we attribute to humans intelligence. Alike to how computers were deemed intelligent by the public for doing fast mathematics, computers still…

What if self-reflection, agency, or abstract thought aren’t required for intelligence?

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#24

Post by randomdata »

m00x wrote: post #20
randomdata wrote: post #7

We'd do better to stop conflating AI with machine learning. Machine learning can be one way to create AI, but it doesn't end there.

I think you missed the point of the article. What he says is AI is more alike to what the public calls AGI.

That may be, but then his position doesn't stand up as nobody calls everything AI in the AGI sense in the first place. AI is indeed used often, but it is very much understood that it means something quite different to AGI (hence the two different terms).

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#25

Post by m00x »

randomdata wrote: post #21
m00x wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have any reasoning capability. There is nowhere in their architecture that would give them the ability to reason. All they do is predict what would be the most likely word to go next in the sentence, considering the current text and the input text.

What is reasoning other than predicting what next step is most likely to produce a desired outcome? That's all it feels like the mind is doing. Is there a more formal take?

> Reason is the capacity of consciously applying logic by drawing conclusions from new or existing information, with the aim of seeking the truth.

ChatGPT doesn't care what word it puts in front of you, and if it's true or not. Reasoning must have a goal, and current LLMs don't. All it does it repeat what are the most common words that they've seen.

It also doesn't think. It's a completely forward process. It's definitely a part of human thinking, but not the reasoning part.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#26

Post by defaultname »

erikerikson wrote: post #12
coding123 wrote: post #9

AI Is the PERFECT name for all of this stuff. Artificial Intelligence. He's arguing because it's artificial it shouldn't be called artificial.

> He's arguing because it's artificial it shouldn't be called artificial. No, he's arguing that it shouldn't be called intelligent because it is not.

[dead]

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#27

Post by m00x »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #23
m00x wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's arguing that AI should be closer to what the public calls AGI. The semantics are important here, since people think that LLMs like chatGPT have intellect, and some have even gone so far as to tie an IQ to it. The truth is that the model has no intelligence, but can do what we attribute to humans intelligence. Alike to how computers were deemed intelligent by the public for doing fast mathematics, computers still…

What if self-reflection, agency, or abstract thought aren’t required for intelligence?

It depends on how you define intelligence, but the most common definition of human intelligence is the ability to have abstract thought.

Intelligence, reasoning and AI are all very loosely defined words, and unfortunately neuroscience hasn't gone far enough to explain a lot of these mechanisms.

We could maybe compare AI to a dog's intelligence, but even then there's a goal system in the dog, and the dog wants to optimize for it (getting treats). LLMs are created to be purely tools, and not reflective or goal-oriented.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#28

Post by subroutine »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #6

Sure, right after we stop calling linear algebra and matrix manipulation "machine learning".

I get the sentiment but linear algebra is a primary method used in certain in machine learning frameworks (e.g. training neural nets). Personally I think linear regression (which also relies on linear algebra) is erroneously considered machine learning. To me the distinction is whether you provided a series of labeled data to incrementally train and improve the model and work towards some minima (i.e. learning), or did you use a method that ingests all available data to derive a one-shot solution.

Re: Stop Calling Everything AI, Machine-Learning Pioneer Says (2021)

#30

Post by m00x »

randomdata wrote: post #24
m00x wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the point of the article. What he says is AI is more alike to what the public calls AGI.

That may be, but then his position doesn't stand up as nobody calls everything AI in the AGI sense in the first place. AI is indeed used often, but it is very much understood that it means something quite different to AGI (hence the two different terms).

Yeah, that's a good point. The general public has now taken AGI as the term he recognizes as AI, and AI as what he calls ML.

Language is fluid, and I don't think he'll win this battle. Even if the current ML models aren't intelligent, it's probably better to just go with the flow instead of being stuck on pedantry.

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