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Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

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Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#21

Post by ssgodderidge »

freetime2 wrote: post #16
stasbar wrote: post #2

I'm curious what do you think about this relationship between loneliness and self-understanding?

I don't really agree that being able to effectively explain yourself to others is either necessary or sufficient to cure loneliness. Take my relationship with my kids, for example. I don't feel lonely when I am with them, and I would not say our relationship is predicated on me being to explain myself to them or their understanding me. Being able to explain/express yourself is a nice skill to have, and it may help ce…

I agree. "I'd have close relationships (and not feel lonely) if I could simply, accurately explain myself."Not all people who are lonely are misunderstood. Perhaps others understand the person, but don't agree with their actions/thoughts/etc, so they isolate themselves from the person. Being misunderstood could contribute to loneliness, but it isn't the sole cause someone would be lonely.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#22

Post by PartiallyTyped »

standardUser wrote: post #13

I really like the thrust of this argument (loneliness is about not being understood) but I think the solution is off the mark... > So it’s your task to make others understand you There is another task that is just as important. You need to find people who are capable of understanding you . It may sound like a cart/horse issue where you need to understand enough about yourself to find people who are receptive. That my…

I'd add that nothing with sufficient complexity can be adequately described in a simple words, let alone explained in a concise yet simple manner.

You may go up in abstraction to make it concise, but this risks either oversimplifying to the point that all nuance is lost and you feel alone, or requiring that the other person shares sufficiently overlapping definitions. They may probe further to build said abstractions, but this requires a time investment, and as you said, the capacity to relate to some extend.

I believe that a person who understands themselves well is bound to have a rich inner world and abstractions that adequately describe them while feeling very natural but because we are all humans with our own subjective experiences, finding people with similar abstractions - and experiences - such that we can relate to each other is difficult.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#23

Post by rjzzleep »

standardUser wrote: post #13

I really like the thrust of this argument (loneliness is about not being understood) but I think the solution is off the mark... > So it’s your task to make others understand you There is another task that is just as important. You need to find people who are capable of understanding you . It may sound like a cart/horse issue where you need to understand enough about yourself to find people who are receptive. That my…

Is sexuality the only conflicting thing we can think of nowadays? I can think of at least 10 things people might freak out about me, without even getting to thinking about what sexuality I may have.

In general I agree with the premise of "You need to find people who are capable of understanding you".

It's actually a combination of that and your feeling about yourself. I'm not sure how to describe it, but I'll just call it once you're in balance with yourself, i.e. in an okay(maybe not perfect or ideal) mental state, and you have some sort of pillar you can lean on(your beliefs, your understanding of the world, etc.), then its no longer about your desire to get others to accept you, but rather putting yourself in an environment where you feel okay.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#24

Post by TimTheTinker »

I like the structure and insight of the argument, but I think it needs some re-working.

Definition 1 could be broadened to: "Loneliness is when we aren't known and loved by others."

Loneliness can occur because we're socially isolated for some reason. It can also occur when we're with others who don't know us, because we're not willing or able to open up to them. This could be because we are afraid to be real with others, but it could also be because we're afraid to be real with ourselves.

There's nothing like being real with yourself, being real with others, being loved by others who really know you, and knowing/loving them as well.

Incidentally, this ties in with Christianity's value proposition: no human can both know and love you perfectly, but God can and will to those who receive his gospel.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#26

Post by throwaway11823 »

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go.

Do I "not understand how I feel" because I feel lonely right now? Or is communication not a one way street? Most of the time when I miscommunicate with someone, I find it's as much about their not wanting to understand as it is about my being unclear.

As a man, I have lots of people in my life who love me, but they consistently fail to take notice of my emotional needs. When I express that I have emotional needs, all I get in response is a "deer in the headlights" look, from other men, from women, from parents, from friends, from my SO. So usually I just keep them to myself because I don't see the point in asking for something that someone can't offer me - a tremendously lonely experience. Do I "not understand myself?" Am I not speaking clearly enough? No, the idea that I might need something from the people who rely on me terrifies them, and they freeze up and stutter and generally are unable to offer me any assistance.

And of course, I'm sure all of us experienced during the pandemic the loneliness of not having access to other people or being able to fulfill your social needs - distinct from the loneliness of being with people who don't understand you.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#27

Post by xyzwave »

"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood."

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#28

Post by snozolli »

Definition 1 is wildly inaccurate.

Even if we take it as valid, how are you going to communicate who you are to others who aren't equipped to understand? As an extreme example, consider being dropped into another nation where they speak a language you have no knowledge of. Without shared language and culture, you can't hope to be understood.

Doesn't mean you can't be surrounded by helpful, caring people (friends?), though, which is why this argument is completely flawed from the get-go.

Re: Loneliness is a measure of self-understanding

#29

Post by Fauntleroy »

throwaway11823 wrote: post #26

Earlier today I sent my SO a long string of text messages about a problem that I was having, including one of them that said "I feel like garbage." I was feeling really down. They didn't respond to any of the text messages; when they got home, I asked them about it, and it seemed like they just sort of skimmed them and they didn't notice that one in particular. I didn't mention it; I just let it go. Do I "not underst…

You might need to surround yourself with more compassionate people, if you truly feel that no one is willing to consider your emotional wants and needs.
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