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The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

nytimes.com

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Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#21

Post by jrockway »

emmelaich wrote: post #13
crcsmnky wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, just leveraging APIs to unify contact lists. If you never set them up, you're not forced to interact with them.

Yep. Some android phones (like mine) have facebook and twitter apps that cannot be uninstalled, too. Presumably by my mobile network company, not the manufacturer. I've never used them, but they do annoy with occasional update requests. Will put Cyanogen on the phone soon enough though.

They can't be uninstalled because they are installed in a compressed read-only filesystem that is expensive and risky to rewrite. This engineering compromise forces you to look at the icons of applications that you don't want to look at in exchange for more functionality from a cheaper device.

We all wish this was some conspiracy by the carriers to force you to expose your personal information to Facebook, but the reality is, it's a convenience for the 99.9% of people that do want to use Facebook. It would be inconvenient if phones came with no applications. It would be too expensive if every phone shipped every application on every Android market. So the carriers aim somewhere in the middle. The rest is an implementation detail.

A feature to "soft delete" applications in Android would be nice; instead of physically deleting the bits from the filesystem, just hide the icons and intents. I'm sure a patch implementing this would be most welcome.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#22

Post by rayhano »

Too bad the marketing just isn't quite "I have to have one" yet. The Nokia Lumia seems slick... but have you seen the pop-up Nokia booths in the malls? They haven't got a bloody clue. The phones are tethered to a FAT security device...

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#23

Post by latch »

I know this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't attitude, but I think this is bad news for Microsoft.

Microsoft lives in an echo chamber. The last thing they need is a product people say is good, but that doesn't sell. This is going to stall them and they are going to wait for the sales to catch up to the hype - which in their mind it absolutely must/will. And when it doesn't, rather than acknowledge just how bad their brand is or how late to market they continue to be, they'll look at the outside world for what went wrong (it couldn't be them, people loved their products!).

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#24

Post by megablast »

ugh wrote: post #11
joe_the_user wrote: post #5

I actually Microsoft UI's have been good if not the best for usability in terms of accomplishing a task over time. MS' main problem has been the "ugly on first blush" problem and even then, their interfaces have been ugly in the way an American cars, a twelve year old boy's toy hero or a supermarket tabloid are ugly. They've been flashy. lowest common denominators items that work perfectly for their intended purposes…

You are kidding, right? One example: Have you ever actually tried to change settings or preferences in any version of Windows (for the PC)? It’s a clusterfuck and it hasn’t gotten better. The problem is not that it is ugly, the problem is that it is a pain to use. Windows 7 has done many things right and is pretty awesome in many respects but there are important areas where its usability cannot reasonably be called g…

The problem is also that every new OS they decide to move everything around. So if you do know it, now you do not. One thing I really enjoy learning every new OS is where all the settings are, that is so much fun.

This is one reason I think people stay with XP so much, there are too many stupid changes. I couldn't be bothered learning all the new stuff with Vista/7, so I skipped them both.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#25

Post by code_duck »

ugh wrote: post #11
joe_the_user wrote: post #5

I actually Microsoft UI's have been good if not the best for usability in terms of accomplishing a task over time. MS' main problem has been the "ugly on first blush" problem and even then, their interfaces have been ugly in the way an American cars, a twelve year old boy's toy hero or a supermarket tabloid are ugly. They've been flashy. lowest common denominators items that work perfectly for their intended purposes…

You are kidding, right? One example: Have you ever actually tried to change settings or preferences in any version of Windows (for the PC)? It’s a clusterfuck and it hasn’t gotten better. The problem is not that it is ugly, the problem is that it is a pain to use. Windows 7 has done many things right and is pretty awesome in many respects but there are important areas where its usability cannot reasonably be called g…

The 'control panel' has always been a god awful nightmare... sure enough, in 95, 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista and 7, it's disorganized and confusing, the changes they've made notwithstanding. Contrast this with Apple's System Preferences, and it's clear MS needs a basic philosophical change in how they design interfaces such as this.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#26

Post by joejohnson »

Both Android and iOS devices have a large ecosystem of apps and services that users can access from day 1. This may seem small, but I feel that this is the number one reasons why a normal consumer is drawn toward these more popular options. Is Windows Phone going to have a sexy app store with immense games and productivity apps? Maybe eventually, but if Mocrosoft can't attract consumers, they will continue to struggle with attracting developers. Microsoft may have made a great mobile OS, but without the cloud backbone, they will remain uncompetitive.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#27

Post by gergles »

jrockway wrote: post #21
emmelaich wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Some android phones (like mine) have facebook and twitter apps that cannot be uninstalled, too. Presumably by my mobile network company, not the manufacturer. I've never used them, but they do annoy with occasional update requests. Will put Cyanogen on the phone soon enough though.

They can't be uninstalled because they are installed in a compressed read-only filesystem that is expensive and risky to rewrite. This engineering compromise forces you to look at the icons of applications that you don't want to look at in exchange for more functionality from a cheaper device. We all wish this was some conspiracy by the carriers to force you to expose your personal information to Facebook, but the re…

Said feature exists in ICS. You can "disable" any app, even the ones in ROM.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#28

Post by cppsnob »

If I remember the numbers, leading up to the WP7 launch, MS dropped roughly 100 million on marketing. They sold less than 100,000 units on launch week. Whatever the exact numbers, I remember someone pointing out it would have been more cost effective to give the phones away for the launch.

It's still that way today. They have no mindshare of the public at large, nor the developers, nor the carriers, nor the handset makers. Somehow, you have to make a product compelling to one of these. iOS is compelling for 2 of the 4 and Android is compelling for all 4. WP7 is compelling to zero of the 4.

For example, they have to fix the native C++ development option. This is especially important for games. Whether or not C# is nice, thanks to only being in C#, every development for that platform becomes a full-on port. If you design your code right for iOS and Android, you can use mostly the same code for both, and just a few glue points for the rest, AND you can develop for both on the Mac instead of having to fire up Windows just for that platform.

The 3rd party development option is so abysmal that Microsoft has been paying for apps to be ported to this platform for two years now. This situation is not sustainable by any measure.

At this point Microsoft is 4 years behind Apple and Google. No one cares if something is arguably better. That's the Zune. That's the Mac in the 90s. Microsoft has to do something that's _compellingly_ better, to someone, somewhere, on some basis that makes money.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#29

Post by megablast »

d4nt wrote: post #14

This is good news for Microsoft, and I really do hope they do well, but there's still a mountain to climb: tech reviewers are not the same as normal consumers and impressing them for the limited period of time it takes to write a review does not necessarily translate onto having a successful product. Here are a few challenges Microsoft still face: 1. Getting the mobile networks to take handsets running Windows Phone.…

I really hope Microsoft do not do well. I would like to see more competition in the mobile OS space, but I do not want Microsoft to be in control of anything ever again. I feel the industry really came to a halt in the decade that Microsoft owned the OS.

Re: The Critics Rave... for Microsoft?

#30

Post by jonmrodriguez »

megablast wrote: post #29
d4nt wrote: post #14

This is good news for Microsoft, and I really do hope they do well, but there's still a mountain to climb: tech reviewers are not the same as normal consumers and impressing them for the limited period of time it takes to write a review does not necessarily translate onto having a successful product. Here are a few challenges Microsoft still face: 1. Getting the mobile networks to take handsets running Windows Phone.…

I really hope Microsoft do not do well. I would like to see more competition in the mobile OS space, but I do not want Microsoft to be in control of anything ever again. I feel the industry really came to a halt in the decade that Microsoft owned the OS.

Only because Microsoft had a near-monopoly that much resembles Apple today
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